Author Topic: Single Dragon loop = Reversed ABoK#1051 TIB loop.  (Read 1884 times)

X1

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Single Dragon loop = Reversed ABoK#1051 TIB loop.
« on: June 14, 2013, 01:38:18 AM »
   I was recently lucky enough to meet the true Double Dragon loop - because, deceived by its name, I had been tying an altogether different animal till now ! Of course, the first thing that comes to one s mind, is : What is this "Double" adjective for ?
   This loop has not a Double nipping loop, like the Double Bowline, neither a Double Collar, like the Mirrored Bowline - and it is not a Double loop either...The only double thing it has is this double coil ( well, almost double...), wrapped around its neck, who knows why...Because a single coil would suffice - I do not know why this double coil should be doubled, and I will be glad if somebody enlightens me on this.(*)
   So, I thought, let us remove this seemingly redundant second turn, and see what happens...Surprize ! What I saw is the ABoK#1051 loop, reversed ! That is, if the standing end and the tail of the "Single Dragon" (  :)  ) are connected, and the eye legs are separated, we get the ABoK#1051 - the most simple TIB loop I know ! ( See the attached picture, and read the very recent post, at :
 http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4396.msg27693#msg27693

(*)  P.S. I have found those references about the Single Dragon :
 
   Paul [Kruse] has warned against the Single D. based on the orientation used for the DD; but going this opposite way yields a Single D. that is adequately stable in many materials.( In dressing this other version, the end as it enters the knot after forming the eye...will lie against the standing part.  The bitter end will be pinched between these two parts.
I tested the "single" versions of the two knots, this time using the Tugboat Bwl form shown at Layhands as Tugboat-B.... Again the Perfection Loops survied, but the Dragon (Flying/Tugboat Bowline) first capsized, and so resulted in the SPart making a tortured "Z" pass, severely nipped by a wrap at its entry--which is where it broke.
   And realizing the kinship between the Angler's/Perfection Loop and that eyeknot named "Dragon" of "Double Dragon" notoriety one can step over to a surely less jammable knot, slipping the single Dragon, and putting the slip-bight around eye-bight
   See also:
   http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=21.0
   http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=112.0
« Last Edit: June 14, 2013, 10:22:28 AM by X1 »

X1

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Re: Single Dragon loop = Reversed ABoK#1051 TIB loop.
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2013, 12:23:40 PM »
    I believe I have, by now, read all that was written about everything "Double" in this Forum, including the "Double Dragon" - and I have tied the beast a number of times, on many materials ( this time correctly !  :)  ).
      So, I can state my first opinion :
1.  The Double Dragon is a fine, stable, secure, most probably quite strong, PET AND TIB loop - which is also pretty !  However, it seems that the duplication of the coil around its neck is really needed, and one may go as far as to say that it is dictated : Without it, I am afraid that I would nt be able to say such good things as I have said about it in the previous sentence ! Therefore, this duplication hides / is an indication of, some weakness..."Perfection" is never achieved through multiplication ! If it were a "perfect" knot, it would have been "perfect" ab initio, and it would nt require an addition of an identical second element / coil , on top of a first. So, if something can be improved in the "Single" version, that means that the "Doubled" version can also be improved.
   There is nothing wrong with something already very good, been improved further by duplication - but an already duplicated thing, that could have been improved by the improvisation of its single base, can not be a final "perfect" solution.
2.  The Double Dragon is a fine, stable, secure, most probably quite strong, PET AND TIB loop - which is also pretty !  (bis). However, one should always compare apples to apples -  hitches with the same number of wraps, for example, because, otherwise, a sufficiently large number of wraps would make any hitch obsolete !  :)  So, we have to compare the " Double Dragon" to the Double nipping loop and/or the Double collar bowline-like loops - and I am afraid that this pretty beast will not survive in this evolutionary rcompetition !
   When I examine a "Double Whatever" knot, I study it first in its Single version - because it can be reduced in this version by mistake or by accident ( the second / last collar can be pulled out of the nipping loop of a secure bowline, for example ). If I can improve the Single version, I do it, and then, and then only, I study the Double version. I believe that, in general, the Single Dragon can be improved - and that, in particular, the pet loop is a better PET AND TIB simple loop ( Although I wait, holding my breath, the presentation of DL s MUCH MUCH BETTER loop !   :)  )
   So, The Double Dragon is a fine, stable, secure, most probably quite strong, PET AND TIB loop - which is also pretty, indeed (tris), no question about that...What interests me is if it is one of the best such "Doubled" loops ? That is the question !  :)
« Last Edit: June 14, 2013, 02:31:43 PM by X1 »