Author Topic: Which knots to know?  (Read 35877 times)

roo

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Re: Which knots to know?
« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2013, 05:20:11 AM »
. Sailors always use the bowline as a mooring knot [...]
, when the rope is free to be pulled out, and the remaining knot-to-be-untied is moving along with the pulling object far from the desperate untying hands !  :)
This doesn't pass the sniff test.  If the rope is under tension, pulling itself away, you need to be using a load-releasing hitch of some sort, not a loop.
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X1

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Re: Which knots to know?
« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2013, 05:34:25 AM »
. Sailors always use the bowline as a mooring knot [...]
, when the rope is free to be pulled out, and the remaining knot-to-be-untied is moving along with the pulling object far from the desperate untying hands !  :)
This doesn't pass the sniff test.  If the rope is under tension, pulling itself away, you need to be using a load-releasing hitch of some sort, not a loop.

  Tell a sailor to use a slipped buntline releasing hitch as a mooring knot - but do not forget, please, to carry your shepherd s crook to defend yourself !  :)
 
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 11:59:53 PM by X1 »

erizo1

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Re: Which knots to know?
« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2013, 06:24:36 AM »
If you have a loop, you can use it as a pulley simulator.  You'll get more tension than the Gleipnir, have better stability, and you'll use about half as much line.  Win-win-win.

I can't picture what you mean. Do you have a diagram or picture of this?



And knot4u, thanks very much for your description of the reason you chose the double dragon. I've seen it before, but it looked complicated and I was happy with the loops I already knew, so I didn't bother learning it, but I like that it's secure and easier to untie than a perfection loop (which I really like but seldom use because I don't want to risk it jamming on me), and a little less awkwardly aligned with the standing part than the zeppelin loop.

The double dragon's main competitor in my mind would be the yosemite bowline: good security, doesn't need the pre-tied overhand, won't jam. How would you compare the two?

erizo1

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Re: Which knots to know?
« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2013, 06:39:50 AM »
I just noticed how easily the double dragon falls apart once you loosen it and pull the main loop back through the collar (I think I'm referring to the collar correctly?). That's very appealing to me compared with completely retracing the path of the yosemite bowline to undo it.

roo

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Re: Which knots to know?
« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2013, 06:50:44 AM »
If you have a loop, you can use it as a pulley simulator.  You'll get more tension than the Gleipnir, have better stability, and you'll use about half as much line.  Win-win-win.

I can't picture what you mean. Do you have a diagram or picture of this?
If you have a loop on one end, you can thread the other end through the loop, much like a pulley to get some mechanical advantage on whatever you are binding, almost the same as a Trucker's Hitch.  Then, it's just a matter of tying off with half hitches.
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roo

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Re: Which knots to know?
« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2013, 07:00:15 AM »
And knot4u, thanks very much for your description of the reason you chose the double dragon. I've seen it before, but it looked complicated and I was happy with the loops I already knew, so I didn't bother learning it,
Did you find a memorable/easy way of tying it as an end loop that you can thread through an object?

ref:
http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3682.msg21356#msg21356

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erizo1

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Re: Which knots to know?
« Reply #36 on: June 13, 2013, 12:15:32 PM »
Did you find a memorable/easy way of tying it [the double dragon loop] as an end loop that you can thread through an object?

Yep. I watched this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj3mXk_FbBk. After doing it once or twice, I found it pretty easy to commit to memory. I learned it yesterday and on waking this morning, I'm confident I can do it from memory without any trouble.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 02:47:55 PM by erizo1 »

roo

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Re: Which knots to know?
« Reply #37 on: June 13, 2013, 03:14:54 PM »
Did you find a memorable/easy way of tying it [the double dragon loop] as an end loop that you can thread through an object?

Yep. I watched this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj3mXk_FbBk. After doing it once or twice, I found it pretty easy to commit to memory. I learned it yesterday and on waking this morning, I'm confident I can do it from memory without any trouble.
I'll look over this more, but I see many openings for easy error of what to wrap/tuck where/when.
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knot4u

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Re: Which knots to know?
« Reply #38 on: June 13, 2013, 03:25:36 PM »
If you have a loop, you can use it as a pulley simulator.  You'll get more tension than the Gleipnir, have better stability, and you'll use about half as much line.  Win-win-win.

I can't picture what you mean. Do you have a diagram or picture of this?
If you have a loop on one end, you can thread the other end through the loop, much like a pulley to get some mechanical advantage on whatever you are binding, almost the same as a Trucker's Hitch.  Then, it's just a matter of tying off with half hitches.

Then, a Half Hitch must be part of your five, or end that Trucker with a Roundturn and Two Half Hitches. If we all get a Half Hitch as a bonus knot, then my list changes.

roo

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Re: Which knots to know?
« Reply #39 on: June 13, 2013, 03:29:41 PM »
Then, a Half Hitch must be part of your five, or end that Trucker with a Roundturn and Two Half Hitches. If we all get a Half Hitch as a bonus knot, then my list changes.
I'm abstaining from making a list of five per the original intent of this thread.  I'd hope the OP learns a wider variety of knots, but it's an interesting discussion. ;)
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 03:31:23 PM by roo »
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knot4u

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Re: Which knots to know?
« Reply #40 on: June 13, 2013, 03:33:57 PM »
If you have a loop, you can use it as a pulley simulator.  You'll get more tension than the Gleipnir, have better stability, and you'll use about half as much line.  Win-win-win.

I can't picture what you mean. Do you have a diagram or picture of this?



And knot4u, thanks very much for your description of the reason you chose the double dragon. I've seen it before, but it looked complicated and I was happy with the loops I already knew, so I didn't bother learning it, but I like that it's secure and easier to untie than a perfection loop (which I really like but seldom use because I don't want to risk it jamming on me), and a little less awkwardly aligned with the standing part than the zeppelin loop.

The double dragon's main competitor in my mind would be the yosemite bowline: good security, doesn't need the pre-tied overhand, won't jam. How would you compare the two?

I see like DD better than the Janus. The DD is smaller and more elegant. I have not tested differences in security between the two.

Anyway, don't forget the limit here is five. You don't get to choose Bowline and all variations thereof. If we get to choose knot families, then my list changes and this discussion spirals out of control. If you choose Janus, then that's your knot, not the regular Bowline. Most knots on my list are a compromise and not necessarily the knot I would use for the category.

Festy

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Re: Which knots to know?
« Reply #41 on: June 13, 2013, 03:37:34 PM »
Would the consensus then be, from reading the posts so far, that the 'Roundturn and Two Half Hitches' has to be included in the "Forum Five"?  :)

erizo1

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Re: Which knots to know?
« Reply #42 on: June 13, 2013, 04:13:12 PM »
Anyway, don't forget the limit here is five. You don't get to choose Bowline and all variations thereof. If we get to choose knot families, then my list changes and this discussion spirals out of control. If you choose Janus, then that's your knot, not the regular Bowline. Most knots on my list are a compromise and not necessarily the knot I would use for the category.

Sorry, I was straying from the list of five into a general comparison of loops. I guess I would probably replace the bowline with the DD on my list of five. Simplicity and speed of tying are in the bowline's favor, but I'm never in situations when I need to tie a knot super fast, and assuming I'm making a list of knots I already know (the bowline would be easier to learn, of course), I would probably switch out the bowline for the DD. That leaves me with:

1. Double dragon loop
2. Double sheet bend
3. Reef knot
4. Round turn and two half-hitches
5. Blake's hitch



Would the consensus then be, from reading the posts so far, that the 'Roundturn and Two Half Hitches' has to be included in the "Forum Five"?  :)

You need a multipurpose hitch, and I can't imagine a better one to include. It's simple, easy to tie, won't jam, holds well, accommodates objects of a variety of shapes, and can be tied under load (this feature in particular is huge, this is needed fairly frequently in my experience, and there don't seem to be a lot of hitches for which this is true). Of course, my knowledge base is somewhat limited; at last count, I know 25 hitches. I'm happy to defer to people who know a broader array of knots than I do.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 04:16:39 PM by erizo1 »

X1

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Re: Which knots to know?
« Reply #43 on: June 13, 2013, 08:36:24 PM »
I like the DD better than the Janus. The DD is smaller and more elegant.
 
  You mean "compact ", I believe. Indeed, most safe bowlines are not very compact, and many of them use two collars, at a distance from each other, which makes them very elongated. However, the "locked" bowlines are also compact and quite elegant : See the Lee s locked bowline, at the attached pictures.
 
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 08:36:57 PM by X1 »

Festy

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Re: Which knots to know?
« Reply #44 on: June 13, 2013, 08:55:40 PM »

 
Indeed, most safe bowlines are not very compact, and many of them use two collars, at a distance from each other, which makes them very elongated. However, the "locked" bowlines are also compact and quite elegant : See the Lee s locked bowline, at the attached pictures.

Which bowline variant is most secure and safest of all, in your opinion?