Author Topic: Which knots to know?  (Read 33402 times)

roo

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Re: Which knots to know?
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2013, 04:02:19 PM »


While on the site I clicked onto the 'Zeppelin Loop' page and theres one instruction for the double loop that I can't figure out, as follows:

"Merely repeat the final tuck to obtain the Double Zeppelin Loop."
Like a Double Bowline, the Double Zeppelin Loop is a single loop knot with a complication to further increase security for demanding conditions.

In this case, repeating the final step merely means following the path of the black arrow again:
http://notableknotindex.webs.com/zeppelinloop.html

P.S.  It may be instructive tie a Double Zeppelin Bend to see this extra step (carried out with on both halves of the knot, instead of just one):
http://notableknotindex.webs.com/Zeppelin.html
(last image)
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roo

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Re: Which knots to know?
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2013, 06:08:15 PM »
...the fake, so-called "Zeppelin loop" to its devoted believers...
You're the only one who refuses to see the correspondence between the Zeppelin Bend and the Zeppelin Loop.  Get over it already.  Do we really have to hear the same nutty line every time someone discusses the Zeppelin Loop?
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 12:49:15 AM by roo »
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Festy

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Re: Which knots to know?
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2013, 06:40:13 PM »

Like a Double Bowline, the Double Zeppelin Loop is a single loop knot with a complication to further increase security for demanding conditions.

In this case, repeating the final step merely means following the path of the black arrow again:
http://notableknotindex.webs.com/zeppelinloop.html

P.S.  It may be instructive tie a Double Zeppelin Bend to see this extra step (carried out with on both halves of the knot, instead of just one):
http://notableknotindex.webs.com/Zeppelin.html
(last image)

Aha, I was confusing a 'Double Zeppelin Loop' with something which may not be tieable at all - a 'Two Loop Zeppelin' - my bad!  :-[


knot4u

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Re: Which knots to know?
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2013, 08:56:20 PM »
1. Bowline - best all-purpose loop knot, easy to tie; I have to have a particular reason to use a different loop knot

2. Double sheet bend - a good multipurpose way to join to ropes that will accommodate a difference in diameter between the ropes (larger one forms the U, smaller one does the wraps); the double is almost as quick and easy to tie as the single, and will hold reliably in a broader variety of situations

3. Reef knot - my most frequently used binding knot, the easiest and best suited to most day-to-day use; there are better binders for various situations, but very often, the reef knot will do; it's worth knowing the difference between this and the granny knot because the latter is unreliable and can jam

4. Round turn and two half-hitches - works around pretty much any object, and possible to tie under strain, which I find is often the case (you're hoisting something or suspending something or trying to maintain tension in the line when it's tied off)

5. Adjustable grip hitch - a good tension knot (better than the tautline in my opinion) that provides enough tension and grip for most things I ever need to do; I have also used it as a binding knot for cinching tight around a bundle or similar thing; if you have a pick-up and need to tie things down really tight somewhat often, substitute the trucker's hitch

That's not a bad list.  What's funny is that most of those knots are not my "favorite" for their category, and in reality I would most often be using different knots for the particular purpose because in reality I have memorized a multitude of other knots that are specialized for niche applications.  However, versatility is essential when there are only five slots.  Each knot should have a broad range of capabilities, as those knots do.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 10:35:54 PM by knot4u »

X1

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Re: Which knots to know?
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2013, 09:53:23 PM »
   My recent short list, of the 7 most useful knots.

1. Blackwall hitch..
2. Gleipnir.
3. Bowline.
4. Zeppelin knot.
5. Round turn and two half hitches.
6. Alpine Butterfly midline loop.
7. One knot you are going to figure out and tie by yourself.

  Regarding number #7, I do not mean a "new", or even a "good" or a "nice" knot ! I mean a knot that one would tie by just playing with the ropes, trying to figure out a simple enough and stable tangle, where the tail(s) will not slip out of the knot s nub too easily. It may be a new or an already known to everybody knot, a good or a bad knot, a nice or an ugly knot, it does nt matter ! The important thing is that this will show to the novice knot tier that knot tying is not rocket science, that knots are very simple rope-made mechanisms that can easily be explained / understood, and that everybody can enjoy knotting.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 10:04:54 PM by X1 »

knot4u

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Re: Which knots to know?
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2013, 10:40:07 PM »
2. Gleipnir.
3. Bowline.
4. Zeppelin knot.
5. Round turn and two half hitches.
6. Alpine Butterfly midline loop.

Taking out your 1 and 7, that's a decent five.

X1

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Re: Which knots to know?
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2013, 11:24:41 PM »
   The Blackwall hitch is a marvellous and a very useful knot, which, unfortunately, has not received the attention it deserves by the community of knot tyers. People believe that it can tied only within "hooks", and they do not realize that, for a rope, a hook is not much different from a bight  !  :) The Blackwall hitch can be tied at the tip of any loop, around the one leg, therefore it is an amazing simple and efficient way to connect a loop and a line. "Connect a loop and a line": a very useful thing.

knot4u

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Re: Which knots to know?
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2013, 12:24:59 AM »
Yeah, but the limit here is 5 slots.  If I get to add more slots, even just one more, then the entire dynamic of all the knots changes.

X1

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Re: Which knots to know?
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2013, 12:50:49 AM »
Yeah, but the limit here is 5 slots.  If I get to add more slots, even just one more, then the entire dynamic of all the knots changes.

  If this is so, I know what I will do : I will take out the Blackwall hitch, the Alpine Butterfly midline loop and the Bowline ! Now that I can not have my #7, I do not need to be modest !  :) I will replace the Alpine Butterfly ( a TIB loop ) and the Bowline ( a PET loop ), with the "pet loop", presented recently, which is TIB AND PET loop, at the same time ! So, I now have one more empty slot, which I think I will fill with the Strangle / double overhand knot. So, my strictly 5-slot list is the following :

1. Gleipnir.
2. pet Loop
3. Zeppelin knot
4. Round turn and two half hitches.
5. Strangle / double overhand.

knot4u

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Re: Which knots to know?
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2013, 03:05:14 AM »
1.  Double Dragon Loop
The Double Dragon Loop beat out the Bowline because it's more secure and I have been able to tie a Double Dragon everywhere I can tie a Bowline.  Bowline is easily tied with one hand, but security is a priority for me.  The DD can be tied in the bight, unlike the Bowline.  As an end loop, the DD does not need a pre-knot, unlike the Zeppelin and the Butterfly.

2.  Roundturn and Two Half Hitches
Not much to say, this knot just has to be here.

3.  Reef
I was torn between the Reef and the Gleipnir.  It was a compromise.  The mid-air capability of the Gleipnir is quite valuable, but I can use the Blake Hitch listed below as a mid-air binder.  Also, I don't want to tie my shoes with a Gleipnir or any other knot on this list.  Also, the Reef can serve as a bend.

4.  Blake Hitch
The Blake Hitch beat out the Adjustable Grip Hitch because the Blake grips better and both these knots have basically one purpose, gripping.

5.  Sheet Bend
The Sheet Bend beat the Zeppelin Bend because the mid-span capability of the Sheet Bend is quite valuable. 

I wanted to get a fishing knot (line-to-lure) in there, but I couldn't justify a fishing knot taking one-fifth of the slots.  Anyway, this is all fantasy because in reality I don't restrict myself to 5 knots.  I have about 5 favorite knots per category and 12 categories.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 05:03:31 AM by knot4u »

erizo1

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Re: Which knots to know?
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2013, 04:48:52 AM »
Two knots mentioned here are new to me, and I'm delighted to know them. The Gleipnir weirds me out because it doesn't seem like it could even count as a knot. It's elegant in it's simplicity, but it also kind of looks like voodoo to me. The fact that it works in mid-air is even crazier.

The other is Blake's hitch, which is awesome. I love that it functions as a one-stranded Prusik-type knot, and it certainly seems to have a more robust grip than the adjustable grip hitch.

These two knots have bumped two others from my short list of best knots, so Festy, thank you for the gift two new knots as a result of your post.

knot4u

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Re: Which knots to know?
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2013, 04:57:18 AM »
I need a stopper in my list, but I can't justify taking off one of the knots I listed.

roo

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Re: Which knots to know?
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2013, 05:12:13 AM »
The Gleipnir weirds me out because it doesn't seem like it could even count as a knot.
If you have a loop, you can use it as a pulley simulator.  You'll get more tension than the Gleipnir, have better stability, and you'll use about half as much line.  Win-win-win.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 05:12:48 AM by roo »
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X1

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Re: Which knots to know?
« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2013, 05:13:52 AM »
1.  Double Dragon Loop
The Double Dragon Loop beat out the Bowline because it's more secure... security is a priority for me.

  There are many other bowline-like loops ( post-eye-tiable = PET loops ) that are far more secure than the "common" bowline - and one can always "lock" the "common" bowline "afterwards" very easily, if the application is demanding, by a second collar and an additional tuck of the tail through its nipping loop  -  like it happens in the Janus bowlines or the Lee s and Luca most secure locked bowlines, for example. Sailors always use the bowline as a mooring knot for a security reason that has nothing to do with the slippage of the tail : a knot that has to be untied from the standing part at a second stage, after the closed bight of the eye has been opened up, and the loop has been detached from its anchor, is a dangerous thing ! It can be caught up somewhere, and present security problems . That is the main disadvantage of all non-PET loops, like the Double Perfection loop / Dragon : they require a two-stage untying, and the second stage has to happen when the loop has already been opened up, i.e., when the rope is free to be pulled out, and the remaining knot-to-be-untied is moving along with the pulling object far from the desperate untying hands !  :)

4.  Blake Hitch
The Blake Hitch beat out the Adjustable Grip Hitch because the Blake grips better and both these knots have basically one purpose, gripping.

   Noope ! The adjustable gripping hitch is an adjustable gripping hitch !  :) You can not adjust the Blake hitch without moving it, as a whole, on the main line, i.e. changing the point of the main line it is gripping.
   However, I think that a rope gripping hitch is a somewhat special knot - one does not attach a line on a line with the help of a gripping friction hitch very often, because, most of the time, he/she can achieve the same thing by other, simpler means : a bend, a loop, etc. A rope-gripping hitch is, to my view, a luxury to a 5 seats UV...

  the mid-span capability of the Sheet Bend is quite valuable. 

   There is no such a thing as a "mid-span capability of the Sheet bend" ! There is a mid-span capability of each and every mid-span bight / loop, which can serve as a means to attach things on it later, at a second stage. What you are talking about is a mid-line loop, in general ( which is missing from your collection - I believe that it is an indispensable tool for the knot tyer...), and not the Sheet bend in particular. I thought that you were to include your favourite Span loop, so I could advertise the pet Loop a little more  :) , but you did not. A more easy choice would be the Butterfly loop.

   As a fantasy, of course, this is quite an amusing game : It is a rough sketch of each knot tyer s knowledge, experience and personal style, more than a snapshot of the knotLand itself, but it is entertaining...
   P.S. Edited. The Double Dragon is a fine PET AND TIB loop !
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 11:56:01 PM by X1 »

X1

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Re: Which knots to know?
« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2013, 05:16:41 AM »
I need a stopper in my list, but I can't justify taking off one of the knots I listed.

Notice my choice : the double overhand bend, that is also a hitch, the strangle. You can insert two knots in the same slot by that trick !  :)