Author Topic: The Wave Loop  (Read 7630 times)

Waveling

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The Wave Loop
« on: July 26, 2006, 12:02:17 AM »
A couple years ago I tied a knot that I can't find in any of my books. If anyone has tied it before, or recognizes it at all, please let me know.









It uses the same principles as the Highwayman's hitch, but employs them in loop form. Has anyone ever seen it? I've just been calling it the Wave Loop. Your input would be appreciated. Thanks!

-Wave

roo

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Re: The Wave Loop
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2006, 12:28:43 AM »
A couple years ago I tied a knot that I can't find in any of my books. If anyone has tied it before, or recognizes it at all, please let me know.
 Has anyone ever seen it? I've just been calling it the Wave Loop. Your input would be appreciated. Thanks!

-Wave


It looks like a Bell Ringer's Knot with a bight woven in to stabilize things a bit.  But I don't recall seeing it given a special name off the top of my head.

Ref:
http://notableknotindex.webs.com/spanloop.html
« Last Edit: October 28, 2009, 05:09:01 PM by roo »
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DerekSmith

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Re: The Wave Loop
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2006, 01:22:49 AM »
A couple years ago I tied a knot that I can't find in any of my books. If anyone has tied it before, or recognizes it at all, please let me know.

It uses the same principles as the Highwayman's hitch, but employs them in loop form. Has anyone ever seen it? I've just been calling it the Wave Loop. Your input would be appreciated. Thanks!

-Wave


Hi Waveling,

I don't know if you realise it, but I think you have shared something quite important here !!

Apologies for taking so long to get back on this knot.  I had not seen this method of construction before (with or without the Highwayman's finish) and whenever I come across a 'new knot' I like to live with it for a while in order to get the feel of its performance and utility.  One of the things I find important in a knot is how it develops itself as it is pulled up and if it has any configurations which lead to the knot failing.  Then after this, I like to consider how the forces propagate into the knot and if the knot exhibits strong or weak structural (geometric) characteristics.

The more I used and studied your knot the more I felt that it had good security attributes, and moderate strength characteristics.  But by far the most attractive attribute is its ease of construction.  Although I like the potential quick release feature, I generally prefer a knot without the auto destruct button, so mostly I tied The Wave with a single strand instead of the final bight.

Nearly always (it has two versions dependant upon where the gooseneck is formed), it would settle down into its nice 'butterfly loop type structure and repeatedly I would be reminded that I had seen that similar structure before in another knot.  It's at times like these that I really wish the Geometric Identification System, championed by Dan and Frank was a working part of our toolbox.  Then as I was working on preparing the Overs Index Example No. 2, I remembered where I had seen that structure.

When I make the Wave Loop without the quick release bight, the knot looks like this with the loop between D and the lower red strand :-



Anybody recognise it?

I quickly tied the knot that also had the double loop 'wings' - (I got it wrong first time, but then I usually do with that knot).  Second attempt and bingo, the 'wings' looked identical from the front.  I turned them both over to see how they differed on the other side, and double bingo - they were the same knot.

Anyone guessed yet what the Wave Loop is?

Well here it is :-



Yep, that’s it, the Carrick tied as a loop.  Now, if I was right and the Carrick transmutes into The Wave when tied as the loop, then The Wave must be able to be transmuted back into the Carrick.  So, just to prove it, I took the Wave loop tied with its Hangman's bight and transmuted it back to this:-



So, end of mystery - The Wave Loop is the Carrick Loop, and the Wave loop with quick release is the Carrick loop with quick release.

But just a moment.

The Wave is a method of tying this loop knot {OI-10:15} - moreover, it ties the knot directly and in the most efficient manner I have ever seen it tied.

The Carrick  is another method of tying this loop knot, except it does not tie the knot directly, is clumsy and prone to being tied 'wrong' (at least by me).  In order to create this loop knot from the carrick starting point, it is necessary to transmute the carrick into this final knot form.

In reality, the Carrick {OI-8:16}is little more than a a plait, an ornament with no functional knot structures within it.

If we make a comparison with the Bk,Blt zero knot discussed in the first Overs Index example, then the zero (and un-named knot) can be tied and used in a number of ways - tied as a bend it is known as the Sheetbend.  Tied as a loop it is known as the Bowline (et. al.) and tied onto a standing line it is known as the T-bend.  Why then should we not have the same convention with the Carrick as the zero knot, and the Wave Loop as its loop knot and other names for the bend and the T-bend versions.

The Bk,Blt family of knots all LOOK like the Bk,Blt but are called names dependant upon their use.  Why then should we not call the Carrick family of knots by function specific names - after all, they don't even have remotely the same geometry as the Carrick once they have been formed which is even more reason why they should have their own names.

For me, The Wave is the Knot Master method of tying all of the knots, which used to be derived from the pretty but clumsy Carrick, so in recognition of this elegant method of tying, lets christen the loop, the Wave Loop and the T-bend, the Wave T-bend.  Oh, and if you want a nice quick firm bend then you couldn't go far wrong with the Wave Bend.

So, thank you Waveling, this is I believe an important discovery.   I will certainly use this knot more often now I can create it with this elegant method.  Hopefully, the editor of K.M. will consider an article in the next issue.  Cool methods like this one deserve promotion.

Waveling

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Re: The Wave Loop
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2006, 07:41:15 PM »
Wow. I didn't even make the connection with the Carrick loop. I can see it now that you point it out, though. That is really quite interesting. Thanks for helping solve the mystery!

Znex

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Re: The Wave Loop
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2006, 04:58:47 PM »
After reading this discussion and practicing, I just wanted to include an animation I made on tying the Carrick as a bend. I've always had trouble tying the Carrick, but as previously stated, this is a most elegant method.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2006, 05:03:52 PM by Znex »

KnotNow!

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Re: The Wave Loop
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2006, 06:38:25 AM »
Hi, Sorry not to be able to view the slide show.  Have any others had my problem?  Perhaps it a function of my slooooowww dial up.
ROY S. CHAPMAN, IGKT-PAB BOARD.

Willeke

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Re: The Wave Loop
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2006, 07:03:30 AM »
Znex,
can you place the different pictures online you used to make the animated picture?

Roy,
when you click on 'Carrick-Bend-Anim.gif ' under the post, and download to your own computer, maybe windows viewer can handle it, (mine did.)

Willeke
"Never underestimate what a simple person can do with clever tools,
nor what a clever person can do with simple tools." - Ian Fieggen

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KnotNow!

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Re: The Wave Loop
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2006, 07:36:42 AM »
Thanks, I'll try.  I'll let you know how I get along.  OOPS!  Very bad.  The machine put the file (at least the first picture) in with a file of photo's from something with my buddies son becoming a priest... I tried a second time and the file went?????  Three was not a charm and now I have the first image in files with my second cousin.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2006, 07:45:56 AM by KnotNow! »
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Znex

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Re: The Wave Loop
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2006, 11:34:17 PM »
Here are the individual animation frames. It's nothing too exiciting, just thought I would share.





This next loop (next two images) can be formed quickly just like doing the first loop in the standard Bowline. Take note of the working end shifting towards the center after the right hand flip.








(edit to fix link)
« Last Edit: August 12, 2006, 11:36:33 PM by Znex »

KnotNow!

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Re: The Wave Loop
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2006, 05:07:36 AM »
Hi Znex,
  This works fine (of course) so now I'll play around with and enjoy the variation and think about it in the wee small hours of the night.
  For the slow dialup and the computer chalenged this worked so much better than the linked URL.  That group of folks may only have one member... ME! ???
  Now that I can tie the "Wave Loop" let me think about it an destroy some line and use it in my harsh knotting home.  I use the butterfly loop and the butterfly bend often (when a bend or loop is needed.. several times each day?).  I tie the carrick when I know the stress will be horrible... as the butterfly bend is maybe 1% less effecient.   The only way to know is to snap some line.
  I'll try to get back to the forum on this.   PAB has a show 9-9-06 and I will cut fire wood from day to day until the show and at intense pace after the show.  Maybe 10-21 or so I'll have had some hands on experience with the "Wave Loop"... * a carrick bend.
ROY S. CHAPMAN, IGKT-PAB BOARD.