Author Topic: New Knot? A loop that rivals the Span Loop for Trucker Hitch  (Read 7636 times)

knot4u

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New Knot? A loop that rivals the Span Loop for Trucker Hitch
« on: April 02, 2013, 05:08:22 PM »
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« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 03:36:59 AM by SS369 »

X1

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Re: New Knot? A loop that rivals the Span Loop for Trucker Hitch
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2013, 05:15:41 PM »
   There are many similar TIB loops in the ABoK (Chapter 11 ). It would be great if one could compare this knot with all the loops shown there - not only with the Span loop.

roo

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Re: New Knot? A loop that rivals the Span Loop for Trucker Hitch
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2013, 07:06:10 PM »
Used in the context of a trucker's hitch, it'd probably be fine.

I'm on the fence with this loop.  So far it seems to resist jamming, and has a decent method of tying.  I find that it's very hard to control the size of the loop as it is being tied.  It also has a multiplicity of final forms that takes some coercion to settle, and I'm not sure the average user would know which one is optimal and reliably recognize it.  Like with the Farmer's Loop, this array of final forms makes it hard to evaluate.  One of the forms that I stumbled upon allowed one leg's side to straighten out and slip if pulled harder than the other leg.

If you're OK with the Farmer's Loop, you'd probably be OK with this loop as well, although the Farmer's Loop has a more memorable method of tying, in my opinion.

None of these alternative midline loops is going to approach the stability and check-ability of the Butterfly Loop, but they have their place and I'll probably be playing around with the new loop more.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 02:59:31 PM by roo »
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mat

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Re: New knot challenges Span Loop's #1 Rating in Trucker Hitch.
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2013, 09:22:48 AM »
One thing to note is when tying this loop is that it tends to move down the rope meaning you have to start further up the rope or adjust it and move it up.

Changed my name sorry because mtra is annoying to pronounce

Sweeney

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Re: New knot challenges Span Loop's #1 Rating in Trucker Hitch.
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2013, 10:30:08 AM »
I use a TH regularly to fasten 3 large plastic boxes on to a 2-wheeled truck to move them from my car to where I am demonstrating etc. This may be a fair distance eg across a (canal) lock, a bridge and some very uneven ground and I don't want the lot falling into the canal but at the same time the knots (I use 2 cords) are tied and untied within 10 - 15 minutes so I want something reliable that is quick to both tie (in 5mm solid braid nylon) and easy to untie (permanent loops don't work because the overall height can vary). I gave this a go in the garage and it works well enough but positioning the loop and sizing it would take a bit of practice whereas I am used to the span loop  - which I can undo with gloves on. If I were starting from scratch this is easy to tie/untie and may be the one I would have picked but it doesn't offer anything to displace the span loop for me. Would be worth sending to Knotting Matters?

Barry

roo

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Re: New Knot? A loop that rivals the Span Loop for Trucker Hitch
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2013, 10:44:46 PM »
When you say none of these alternative midline loops approach the stability of the Butterfly Loop, I'm not sure what you mean.   Were you talking about some other application besides a Trucker Hitch?
Yes.
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TMCD

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Re: New knot challenges Span Loop's #1 Rating in Trucker Hitch.
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2013, 12:07:59 AM »
The Arch Loop looks very much like the Farmer's Loop once drawn up, is that correct? In the pictures shown, I haven't noticed a picture of the Arch Loop in it's final form, so I hope I'm tying it correctly.

Luca

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Re: New knot challenges Span Loop's #1 Rating in Trucker Hitch.
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2013, 01:29:50 AM »
Hi TMCD,

I agree,they are very similar, the difference between these two loops reminds me of the difference that exists regarding the orientation of the crossing knot form that takes the place of the nipping turn of the Bowline in the Tugboat Type A and the one Type B.

                                                                                                                Bye!
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 01:32:10 AM by Luca »

TMCD

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Re: New knot challenges Span Loop's #1 Rating in Trucker Hitch.
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2013, 02:06:20 PM »
This is an ugly looking knot in the final form and so is the Farmer's Loop. I just tied the two side by side on the same piece of paracord and they're both ugly ducklings in their final form. I'm sure they're decent knots but I must admit, I like good looking knots and that factors in on whether or not I use them to some degree.

The Butterfly Loop is very attractice as is the Span Loop, not to mention the the various Bellringer varieties that are nice looking.

Luca

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Re: New knot challenges Span Loop's #1 Rating in Trucker Hitch.
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2013, 02:22:11 PM »
Hi knot4u,

the Tugboat knots are so similar,that it is natural to consider them as if they were two brothers, but remains the fact  that there are differences, and that these differences are important: the type B is generally considered a loop better than type A. I hope I was not misinterpreted, I wanted just mention that I think that between the Arch loop and the Farmer's loop there is the same "degree of kinship", without wishing to minimize anything of that was written about the Arch loop: if mat has found the "better brother" I'm glad for this!(as roo has pointed out,both the Farmer's loop and the Arch loop can take different forms:I do not know if it can be interesting to try to set the two loops in various ways that can be "equivalent" ,and compare their respective behavior)

                                                                                                               Bye!
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 02:38:35 PM by Luca »

X1

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Re: New knot challenges Span Loop's #1 Rating in Trucker Hitch.
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2013, 05:52:04 PM »
This is an ugly looking knot in the final form and so is the Farmer's Loop. I just tied the two side by side on the same piece of paracord and they're both ugly ducklings in their final form. I'm sure they're decent knots but I must admit, I like good looking knots and that factors in on whether or not I use them to some degree.

The Butterfly Loop is very attractive as is the Span Loop, not to mention the various Bellringer varieties that are nice looking.

   Amen !  :)

TMCD

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Re: New knot challenges Span Loop's #1 Rating in Trucker Hitch.
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2013, 11:17:10 PM »
I'm dead serious, I don't think it's a very good looking arrangement, at least not to my eye. I'm sure it's a solid little knot but I do like to look at what I consider to be a good looking knot and that shouldn't be hard to understand IMO. The Bowline for example, is a very good looking knot because of it's simplicity IMO. The Butterfly Loop is an attractive knot as is the Span Loop.

Why would you put me on delete over this?

mat

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Re: New knot challenges Span Loop's #1 Rating in Trucker Hitch.
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2013, 01:05:00 AM »
The Arch Loop looks very much like the Farmer's Loop once drawn up, is that correct? In the pictures shown, I haven't noticed a picture of the Arch Loop in it's final form, so I hope I'm tying it correctly.

Hi, I think it's ABoK 1055, similar to he Farmer's Loop 1056.

Wow your right I feel like an idiot for not seeing that. When you tie it it looks a little different but when you pull it in a different direction it clearly is the same. This is NOT an Arch Loop but ABOK 1055 "A Bight Loop" Sorry to cause any confusion.
 
« Last Edit: April 16, 2013, 01:43:41 AM by mat »

Sweeney

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Re: New knot challenges Span Loop's #1 Rating in Trucker Hitch.
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2013, 11:18:19 AM »
This is NOT an Arch Loop but ABOK 1055 "A Bight Loop" Sorry to cause any confusion.

I wouldn't worry - Ashley doesn't give a name to this loop just refers to it as "...another loop knot in the bight"  so as you discovered it independently and it's proving useful the Arch loop seems fine to me (ABOK 1055 is not as memorable).

Barry

Dan_Lehman

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Re: New knot challenges Span Loop's #1 Rating in Trucker Hitch.
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2013, 05:38:36 PM »
The Arch Loop looks very much like the Farmer's Loop once drawn up,
is that correct?  In the pictures shown, I haven't noticed a picture of the
Arch Loop in it's final form, so I hope I'm tying it correctly.

Hi, I think it's ABoK 1055, similar to he Farmer's Loop 1056.

Wow your right I feel like an idiot for not seeing that.
When you tie it it looks a little different but when you pull it
in a different direction it clearly is the same.

I think we need a little more confusion : firstly, there
are various ways to dress & set these knots (including
the farmer's loop) --along with which end to be
loaded opposite the eye (the "directional" aspect ;
not to say that these are (only) directional knots).

I see that #1055 = #533 = OP's knot ; and there
is the quite similar #1056 = #330, in which the
tucked bight goes through that end nip in the
opposite direction.

And with a slight variation of tucking --sending the
2-b-eye bight  down through that loop vs. across
it through the opp. end's nip, one gets a sort of
tugboat bowline which won't satisfy qua eye knot
but works fine qua directional eye, fully loaded
(which I see is just a dressing-&-setting difference
from the artilleryman's loop !).  So many options!


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