Author Topic: What kind of stopper is this?  (Read 5127 times)

smokey

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What kind of stopper is this?
« on: March 19, 2013, 04:37:10 AM »
This stopper can be formed in many ways for example a double overhand dressed differently, a anchor hitch when the hitch is removed or just looped around the standing part 2 times and others.  It is used to stop the rope from pulling out of a hole about the diameter of the cord.
Question:  Does it have a name other than just a variant of a double overhand stopper knot?

Thanks


roo

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Re: What kind of stopper is this?
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2013, 05:37:04 AM »
Question:  Does it have a name other than just a variant of a double overhand stopper knot?
It's not a variant of a double overhand stopper.  It is a double overhand stopper.
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smokey

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Re: What kind of stopper is this?
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2013, 12:38:55 PM »
Question:  Does it have a name other than just a variant of a double overhand stopper knot?
It's not a variant of a double overhand stopper.  It is a double overhand stopper.
How do I then distinguish it verbally from this double overhand stopper? 
Both can be tied the same but the knot in question must be dressed and set differently.
Larger Image of same knot
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 12:40:46 PM by smokey »

roo

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Re: What kind of stopper is this?
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2013, 02:59:24 PM »
How do I then distinguish it verbally from this double overhand stopper? 
Both can be tied the same but the knot in question must be dressed and set differently.
If you must distinguish it, there's no need to use words alone unless you want to confuse people.  Use clear graphics and be understood the first time.
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smokey

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Re: What kind of stopper is this?
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2013, 04:49:38 PM »
Thanks Roo,
I'm not trying to confuse anyone, I'm trying to be clear about something I know much less about and ask a question without leading or fishing for a particular answer. 
I really do appreciate your thoughts and knowledge on this.
It is just that this knot seems to be a little different than the DOH stopper knot and I'm confused as to what to call it.  Kind of like saying that is an Oak tree without saying what kind of Oak tree it is.   

MarkDash210

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Re: What kind of stopper is this?
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2013, 05:33:23 PM »

It is just that this knot seems to be a little different than the DOH stopper knot and I'm confused as to what to call it.  Kind of like saying that is an Oak tree without saying what kind of Oak tree it is.   

I'm a newbie at tying knots, that being said, after tying both the overhand double knot as described on Animated knots by grog and tying this one that your showing, I fail to see how one can classify this as the same knot, with the same name. They are apparently very different in fact.  No matter how I try to dress the typical overhand knot I cannot get the tail perpendicular  like in your first picture, mine always come out paralleled to the original line before the knot. (after playing for a few minutes I figured out how to slip the twist back over itself and form your knot - So this knot is an improperly dressed or collapsed version of the double overhand?)

I think your question is very valid

After looking more at your first knot the basic structure of it would appear to resemble a simple girt hitch more then a double overhand knot..Turn your picture sideways so the end points down , take a look at the knot from the reverse angle and you should see what I'm talking about.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 06:05:35 PM by MarkDash210 »

smokey

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Re: What kind of stopper is this?
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2013, 10:56:34 PM »
Thanks
I have come to the conclusion that it is an improperly dressed double overhand stopper knot that is used in a specific application.   I have done a little video with regard to my concerns in its use.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFXEgeRgeEc


Dan_Lehman

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Re: What kind of stopper is this?
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2013, 05:58:01 AM »
Thanks
I have come to the conclusion that it is an improperly dressed
 double overhand stopper knot that is used in a specific application.
I have done a little video with regard to my concerns in its use.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFXEgeRgeEc

This stopper is one I've seen in commercial-fishing
knotting, loaded on either end (mostly I think it's
as shown in the OP (short end unloaded), but there
were times when it was reversed --anchor bend-like).

"improperly dressed" invites rebuke : I suspect that those
commercial fishers thought otherwise, and could make
a good case for it.  What are your concerns with it?


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MarkDash210

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Re: What kind of stopper is this?
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2013, 12:47:04 PM »
It's "Improperly dressed" if your tying a double overhand knot is what I think he means. Yes you can intentionally  tie this knot, it would look like it would jam  and would be a bear to take apart vs the D.O.K. though.

Dan_Lehman

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Re: What kind of stopper is this?
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2013, 05:05:52 PM »
It's "Improperly dressed" if your tying a double overhand knot is what I think he means. Yes you can intentionally  tie this knot, it would look like it would jam  and would be a bear to take apart vs the D.O.K. though.

At some point one must face up to the question
What is meant by "dbl.oh.knot"? --for me, I've
come to take it topologically vs. geometrically,
where it is general over this whole lot.  For
the form you indicate, "strangle" is a name that
has the benefit of not being used elsewhere
(but really denoting that structure around some
object, *strangling* it --not qua stopper).

As for untying, I think it's just the opposite to what you
assert : the OP's knot, loaded by one end only, will have
trouble delivering force throughout the knot, and should
allow some prying loose.  In the OP's implied loading,
the tail is tightly nipped (and twice) by the SPart; its
wraps around the SPart --manually set, and not further
tightened by loading (nb!)-- should have some effect
in keeping the SPart from backing out.  (This effect, btw,
is what I consider the main benefit of the stevedore
knot
--not some supposed greater bulk.)

Bit I've not seen com.fishermen doing much knot untying:
knots were cut off in some cases where I found untying
rather simple, and about as fast (snood hitches, i.p.)!


--dl*
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smokey

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Re: What kind of stopper is this?
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2013, 03:01:07 PM »
Thanks
I have come to the conclusion that it is an improperly dressed
 double overhand stopper knot that is used in a specific application.
I have done a little video with regard to my concerns in its use.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFXEgeRgeEc

This stopper is one I've seen in commercial-fishing
knotting, loaded on either end (mostly I think it's
as shown in the OP (short end unloaded), but there
were times when it was reversed --anchor bend-like).

"improperly dressed" invites rebuke : I suspect that those
commercial fishers thought otherwise, and could make
a good case for it.  What are your concerns with it?


--dl*
====

The knot is being used for life support.  In the video I try to express my concerns that it may too easily roll out.  In this application it is passed into a life support climbing device with no mention as to the length of the tail, nor is a stopper for the stopper, called for.  If the knot rolls out, death is a likely outcome. 
"Improperly dressed" is probably a poor choice of words but something does not seem right with the application of this knot.  I find it interesting that no mention of this form is outlined by Ashley as a stopper.  Pretty sure it is not because it was not known.

Skip to approximately 14:30, I express and show my concern for its use.   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFXEgeRgeEc

Thanks for giving this some good thought.

roo

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Re: What kind of stopper is this?
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2013, 05:07:14 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFXEgeRgeEc

Thanks for giving this some good thought.
I would be just fine with a figure eight stopper knot for this application.  If you want more security, you might consider not using a stopper at all, but hitch to the dog bone using a Gnat Hitch:

http://notableknotindex.webs.com/gnathitch.html
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