Author Topic: Lazy Dog Knot (was: Monkey Knot)  (Read 5775 times)

Bjoern_Hee

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Lazy Dog Knot (was: Monkey Knot)
« on: February 02, 2014, 10:05:12 PM »
Hi all.

I am new in this group and I would like to show you a knot I have invented. Or possibly reinvented. I call it the monkey knot. For three reasons. It is like two prehensile monkey tails gripping each other. It has some similarity to a monkey's fist, ABoK 2204. And it is so simple to tie, that even a monkey can do it (not really, but it is very simple).

It can be used for a bend and for an eyeknot.

Monkey Bend

1: Take the rope on your left and make two turns. One on top of the other.



2: Take the working end of the rope on your right three times through these turns. So that it forms two turns as well. These turns should go around the crossing part of the other rope's turns.



3: Grip the standing part and working end of one of the ropes and tighten, and then hold the semi loose knot in one hand so it doesn't fall apart.

4: Go around the knot with the other hand, tugging on the standing parts and working ends until the knot is tight.



There you have it... It doesn't get much simpler than that.

Monkey Loop

Same procedure.







It looks nice, but it is not a decorative knot. It is a practical knot.

I think the monkey knot has a lot going for it. It is simple to teach, hard to tie wrong, and easy to inspect. From my testing it works with braided rope, twisted rope and elastic rope. It even works as a tape knot. For the bend the knot sits on the side of the rope, which can be practical for some uses.

The monkey knot can be varied by the number of turns. Threefold monkey knot, fourfold monkey knot... n-fold monkey knot. You can even tie two ropes of different thickness together by having only two turns on the thick rope, and more than two on the thin rope.

It is possible to tie single turn monkey knots in some rope (for example paracord). But it is either not stable or it is near impossible to untie. So this variant is not recommended.

On the negative side is that tightening is a multi stage process, and that the knot can be a bit bulky. It is also a negative that the monkey knot has not yet stood the test of time (I guess). So be careful. Do your own testing. Use at your own risk.

Well that is how I see it, but I might be a little subjective, so I would like to hear your opinions.

Considering that the monkey knot is so simple, there is a good chance it has already been invented. I have searched through all the knot literature that I could get my hands on, but could not find it anywhere. If you already knew about it, please put it in the comments.

Hope I didn't take your time with some wellknown knot. Hope you liked it.

Enjoy.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 10:22:21 PM by Bjoern_Hee »

xarax

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Re: Monkey Knot
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2014, 11:20:52 PM »
http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4150.0

(Those are the best pictures I have seen in the Forum !  :))
This is not a knot.

Bjoern_Hee

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Re: Anchor Hitch Variant (was: Monkey Knot)
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2014, 07:27:46 PM »
Thank you xarax. That is spot on.

Nine pages, wow. I haven't read it all yet, but interesting stuff (especially the test results from James Petersen).

Searching the internet for "anchor hitch variant" - or "two by four knot" - gives almost nothing. Could be, as some write, because the knot is not that great. Not that I entirely agree. But even so, try a search for "granny knot"...

Jamming can be countered by sticking one or both working ends back through the double turns before tightening. Making a sort of slipped knot (an anchor hitch variant variant?). It is a complication though, and goes against its primary quality, namely its simplicity.

BTW Do you know if there is a way to move the subject to another board?

xarax

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Re: Anchor Hitch Variant (was: Monkey Knot)
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2014, 09:20:55 PM »
  Searching the internet ...gives almost nothing. Could be, as some write, because the knot is not that great.

   Nowadays, most young people assume that everything that matters is in the internet. Wrong assumption. We would need many more years, I guess, until the new generation learns that there are many great things that are not in the internet ! - and some of them will never be.       
   Searching in the internet, but in some books on knots, too, I was not able to find anything ( except of one or two pictures, in the Animated Knots by Grog site...) of the most tight and secure hitch around a tensioned rope we have - which is known who-knows-since-when, and which is used during the moorings of ships by hundreds of sailors every day, the rat-tail stopper. And do not even think to search for the tightest hitch around poles we have, the TackleClamp hitch... :).

Jamming can be countered by sticking one or both working ends back through the double turns before tightening.
This should do the job, but I have not tested it. Till now I have only retucked a few bends in an effort to improve their security or strength.

Making a sort of slipped knot ... It is a complication though, and goes against its primary quality, namely its simplicity.

  If you do this, you tie a sort of Strangle bend (0), or of double Hunter s bend - where the "double" means "two wraps". You can also tie another double Hunter s bend, with two collars, resembling the retucked alt. Carrick bend recently presented by allene (1). ( See the attached pictures, for pictures of the two variations of double collar Hunter s bend. Personally, if I had to "duplicate" a very simple bend, I would duplicate the Zeppelin bend (2).

0. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=2154.msg16858#msg16858
1. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4756.0
2. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1980.0
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 10:49:20 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

xarax

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Re: Anchor Hitch Variant (was: Monkey Knot)
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2014, 09:22:46 PM »
  The second variation of a "double collars" Hunter s bend.
This is not a knot.

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Anchor Hitch Variant (was: Monkey Knot)
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2014, 05:04:47 AM »
Thank you xarax. That is spot on.
Ha!  Xarax had previously fetched that for me,
in relation to another's query also about some
similar but different knot --NB!

If you consider the commonly assumed relation
between end-2-end & eyeknot, you will see this
difference; your former is asymmetric.

Interesting that this general structure should pop
up from three independent sources in a span of
about the same number of years!?

Cheers,
--dl*
====

Bjoern_Hee

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Re: Lazy Dog Knot (was: Monkey Knot)
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2014, 10:24:36 PM »
I changed the title. I think that "Lazy Dog" is the proper name for the knot.

To see if jamming is unavoidable (I hoped it wasn't), I did some testing with cotton twine. Different number of turns and tucking of working ends. But it invariably jammed very hard in that material. Apparently no way of really escaping it. Jamming is in the nature of this knot.

But if you need to tie a permanent knot, I still think the lazy dog knot is a nice option.

Put in other words... The phrygians didn't had to make the Gordian Knot intricate, they could simply have tied a lazy dog knot in cotton twine.