Author Topic: Composite knot  (Read 15499 times)

xarax

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Re: Composite knot
« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2014, 01:37:10 PM »
   The loop shown at Reply#18 (1) is very similar ( but easier to tie, as the second leg of the collar is not tucked under the first ), to the Enhanced Bowiline , by Harry Asher ( Knotting Matters 23 ), shown at the attached picture. I had tucked the second leg "under" the first. in order to offer a larger deflexion to the direct continuation of the returning eye leg, and to secure it there further.

1. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4283.msg28689#msg28689
This is not a knot.

xarax

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Cross-gartered, X-collar TIB bowline
« Reply #31 on: June 01, 2015, 10:43:43 AM »
   Here is a my new TIB bowline, tied on my new rope !
   
   Of course, I am just kidding : The rope is not new, because it is just my orange rope turned into purple by Picassa. The bowline is not new, because it is just a variation of Braided bowline, with a doubled, cross-gartered collar ( = X-collar ). It s TIB-ness is not unexpected : in fact, it should be pretty obvious to any knot tyer who has understood the "haltering the collar" concept/method ( applied by Ashley in many knots ). Imagine the same bowline with the pair of ends outside the cross-gartered collar(s) - then, you have just to reeve the whole knot though this collar/those collars ( which is the equivalent, topologically, to tuck the ends themselves through this collar(s) ). Last but not least, it is not "my" new TIB bowline, because I have just connected the dots in front of me, and because no knot belongs to any-body ( except, perhaps, to KnotGod, who, in His turn, belongs to God Himself !  :)
   There is no big difference of how the two legs of the collar will be crossed ( over/under or under/over ) - I had chosen this way because I think it makes some curves smoother. Also, I believe that there is no point to add yet another crossing "above" this first one, which I find adequate. If we feel that we should add something, that will be a second nipping turn, not a third collar ! There should better be an equilibrium, a balance between the two structures of the bowline, the "nipping structure" ( the knot tied on the Standing Part before the eye ) and the "collar structure" ( the knot tied on the Standing Part after the eye ).

See also : http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4701
« Last Edit: June 01, 2015, 01:38:29 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

xarax

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Re: Composite knot
« Reply #32 on: June 02, 2015, 02:17:10 PM »
   I think that there is a way to distinguish those bowlines. In the original Braided bowline, the idea was to weave the Standing Part and the two legs of the collar, above the nipping loop, as much as possible, in an effort to dissipate the tensile forces running through each one of them to all three segments - a sort of splicing. The resulting image is something resembling a three-strand braid. In the Cross-gartered collar bowline presented in the previous post, the idea was to weave only the legs of the collar, around a straight Standing Part which penetrates them. The Enhanced bowline and the Simplified Braided bowline,  are somewhere in between - but, as I do not see any significant deflexion of their Standing Parts, which will allow a portion of the tensile forces running through them to be "uploaded" to the legs of the collar, I believe they do not "work" as the Braided bowline - their structure is different, although the differences in slippage and/or strength may be minor or insignificant.
This is not a knot.

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Composite knot
« Reply #33 on: June 02, 2015, 08:45:00 PM »
In the original Braided bowline, the idea was to weave the Standing Part and the two legs of the collar,
above the nipping loop, as much as possible, in an effort to dissipate the tensile forces ...
There is another way to orient the tail's extended
*activity*, so that it doesn't affect the S.Part so
much as just provide a (half-of-a) blood knot (common
whipping
) sort of secure finish --the wraps clamping
upon the tail and holding the finish secure.

I have some favor for doing this with the coils
done around the eye legs, and the wrapping being
somewhat awkward to make --in that the tail must
be tucked under the prior-formed wraps-- so that the
tightening comes simply from hauling on the tail in
setting.  (The exit for this extension sees the tail
returning through the central nipping loop as the
3rd diameter therein.)


--dl*
====

SS369

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Re: Composite knot
« Reply #34 on: June 02, 2015, 11:15:32 PM »
In the original Braided bowline, the idea was to weave the Standing Part and the two legs of the collar,
above the nipping loop, as much as possible, in an effort to dissipate the tensile forces ...
There is another way to orient the tail's extended
*activity*, so that it doesn't affect the S.Part
--dl*

One of my original criteria was to involve shedding tensile forces on the standing part (as with the braided double) before it entered the nipping area, not just to add security.  That is the purpose of the small amount of braiding.
The cross garter doesn't engage the standing part this way.

That "activity" is not so difficult nor any harder than other suggestions in this thread.

And everything after the nip regarding the tail wrapping was not what I was after. We already have "simple locks" that work very well for that.

In truth, I don't think there is enough braiding (in the OP offering) to accomplish this, so the effect is most likely negligible or close to. Perhaps extending it a few more weaves will. The attribute that makes it worth trying is that it retains post eye tie-ability.

SS

xarax

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Re: Composite knot
« Reply #35 on: June 03, 2015, 10:07:04 AM »
I don't think there is enough braiding... to accomplish this

  The optimum amount and way of braiding is a difficult thing to achieve : We have three braided strands, each of which is loaded differently ( 100%-50%, 50%-0%, 0%-0% of the total load by their two ends, give or take ). A symmetric, good-looking braid way may be easier to memorize and tie, but not very effective in forcing the most heavily loaded strand, the direct continuation of the Standing End, to bend as much as possible, and "upload" a significant portion of the tension running through it to the other two.
This is not a knot.