Author Topic: Secure hitch for perpendicular pull on a smooth pipe or rod??  (Read 7441 times)

Mike

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What is the most secure hitch for hanging something heavy on a smooth pipe? Direction of pull woulod be perpendicular to the pipe.  Right now I am experimenting with the Snug Hitch and Ossel hitch.  Im sure there may be several good candidates, but I am curious what you guys use or prefer?  Load would be 50 to 150 pounds and rope will be 9mm to 11mm kernmantle.

X1

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Re: Secure hitch for perpendicular pull on a smooth pipe or rod??
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2013, 06:00:38 AM »
  You should not ask this question, if you do not wish to get an answer like : " a 100 round turns whatever hitch."  :)
  Tell me the number of wraps, and I will tell you the best hitch for your purpose.
  For 4 wraps, I would prefer the Double cow hitch (1), or the TackleClamp hitch (2). Moreover, I am ready to bet that those are the tighter and most secure hitches around - because I need to buy some new ropes !  :)

   1.  http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4035.msg24345#msg24345
   2.  http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4224.msg26331#msg26331

Mike

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Re: Secure hitch for perpendicular pull on a smooth pipe or rod??
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2013, 11:49:35 AM »
Number of wraps isnt as important as speed and simplicity of tying the knot.   I'll try to narrow down the selection.   Lets stick with 4 wraps or less and able to be ties with just one end of the rope.  For example, if the 100 lb load already has one end of the rope secured to it and someone is holding the load up and needs a rest, I would use the other end to quickly tie off to an over head pipe. I would want something fairly quick and simple,  but secure enough to not have to worry about it slipping.

Sweeney

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Re: Secure hitch for perpendicular pull on a smooth pipe or rod??
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2013, 12:28:20 PM »
I don't think the number of wraps is all that relevant as this hitch is at right angles to the pipe.  I would use the anchor bend variant (aka fisherman's bend).

Barry

X1

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Re: Secure hitch for perpendicular pull on a smooth pipe or rod??
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2013, 07:08:43 PM »
Number of wraps isnt as important as speed and simplicity of tying the knot.

   Speed and simplicity of tying the knot is related to the number of wraps, is nt it ? However, my point is that we should compare apples to apples - and, in the case of hitches, the number of wraps is the most objective thing, corresponding to a common measure.
   Speed is depending on dexterity, as well as on the stiffness of the rope, and the diameters and of the rope and the pole. Alan Lee ties some knots with one hand, and in one fraction of a second - is this something that has any relation whatsoever with the "speed" those knots can be tied ?       
   Simplicity is a very complex thing, and it is related with the amount of information of a pattern, be it special or temporal. Is the "Eskimo" (-) bowline less simple than the common bowline ? I have also to point out that the human brains differ as least as much as the human bodies. Patterns that look simple to some people, and can be remembered and reproduced by them easily, seem awfully complicated to others... Also, a deep understanding of a pattern, and a systematic repetition of it a large number of times, makes it look like a more "simple" knot, even if, at the first sight, it seems that it is not.
   I have answered which is the best solutions for 4 wraps. Do not wait until you are told the same thing for a second time !   :) People will not put their money where their mouth is, and they have a good reason for this... :) We will need a new generation of knot tyers, that will not be brain-washed by Ashley s poor chapters on tight hitches, and will be bored to parrot the same mediocre knots shown there, over and over again. 
« Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 02:33:20 AM by X1 »

knot4u

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Re: Secure hitch for perpendicular pull on a smooth pipe or rod??
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2013, 11:13:34 PM »
Per Mike's second post, if someone is holding100 pounds on one end, I assume we're talking about an emergency situation because, for most people, holding 100 pounds is automatically on the verge of being dropped.  So, I'd probably tie a Slipped Buntline or Siberian quickly just to get the job done.  If the load can't be allowed to drop below the point the person is holding the load, then I'd go with Round Turns plus Two Half Hitches or Backhand Hitch.

I know these are boring answers, but I'm being practical and honest.  There's no time to fool around with a cool hitch I kinda sorta know how to tie.  I would expect to receive a full beat down from my friend if it took me more than about 7 seconds to tie the hitch.  By the way, I'm not sure why it matters if the pole is "smooth."  Do you care to elaborate, Mike?
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 11:56:52 PM by knot4u »

Mike

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Re: Secure hitch for perpendicular pull on a smooth pipe or rod??
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2013, 05:45:00 AM »
I just assumed that if the pipe was slick or smooth it would not have alot of friction and would allow some hitches to slip easier.  On a rough rusted pipe just a simple clove hitch might hold well.

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Secure hitch for perpendicular pull on a smooth pipe or rod??
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2013, 06:46:40 PM »
Per Mike's second post, if someone is holding100 pounds on one end,
I assume we're talking about an emergency situation because,
for most people, holding 100 pounds is automatically
on the verge of being dropped.
Ha, already dropped !!  --100# and one hand to tie ... ?!

Quote
So, I'd probably tie a Slipped Buntline or Siberian quickly just to get the job done.  If the load can't be allowed to drop below the point the person is holding the load, then I'd go with Round Turns plus Two Half Hitches or Backhand Hitch.

Lord, the ol' slipped buntline again!?  Your initial point about
difficulty leads to your latter solutions.  (I read "smooth" and of
course went off --as I think X1 did, too-- thinking "parallel pull"
until Barry shook me free of that (and now you've prompted Mike
to explain why he chose "smooth").)

Yes, I'd first be taking turns to hold the load,
while I later logged into IGKT forums to check
for the latest answer, on my $martPhone!
Ironically, if I felt Groggy I might get highly Animated!   ;D

I like the backhanded idea, then the clove to the line
(aka "half-hitches").  I like better the thought of tying
the line before attaching the 100# !

OTOH, a round turn and then a tautline hitch might enable
one to fine-tune the load's height (the former enabling some
sort of hoisting and holding, while the latter is adjusted
--probably with anticipation of some yield).  Also, having
just a round turn on the pipe will give some frictional
grip under load to stay in place, but with lightening
can enable the position to be moved along the pole.


--dl*
====

roo

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Re: Secure hitch for perpendicular pull on a smooth pipe or rod??
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2013, 07:50:48 PM »
Number of wraps isnt as important as speed and simplicity of tying the knot.[...]  For example, if the 100 lb load already has one end of the rope secured to it and someone is holding the load up and needs a rest, I would use the other end to quickly tie off to an over head pipe. I would want something fairly quick and simple,  but secure enough to not have to worry about it slipping.
If someone else is somehow holding the burdensome load, I'm assuming that you, the tyer, don't have to deal with this tension, correct?

If so, a number of hitches can be tied quickly and not slip.  For example:
http://notableknotindex.webs.com/gnathitch.html
http://notableknotindex.webs.com/timberhitch.html

If you need to deal with tension, you might have to settle for:
http://notableknotindex.webs.com/roundturntwohalfhitches.html

...or some variation thereof.  Then again, the constant loading may prevent security issues arising from erratic motion.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 09:50:31 PM by roo »
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knot4u

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Re: Secure hitch for perpendicular pull on a smooth pipe or rod??
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2013, 09:18:48 PM »
Ha, already dropped !!  --100# and one hand to tie ... ?!

Per Mike's second post, someone else is holding the 100 pounds.

Thanks for playing.

Mike

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Re: Secure hitch for perpendicular pull on a smooth pipe or rod??
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2013, 12:49:12 AM »
Well let me give you another scenario. I'm pulling the load up via a pulley overhead. I have the load halfway to its destination and need to tie off and rest.  Only thing nearby to tie off to is some 2" metallic conduit running along the wall or up the wall.  What are my best options to tie by myself while holding tension on the loaded rope??

These are two real situations I have ran into in the last couple weeks at work.

knot4u

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Re: Secure hitch for perpendicular pull on a smooth pipe or rod??
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2013, 01:58:18 AM »
Well let me give you another scenario. I'm pulling the load up via a pulley overhead. I have the load halfway to its destination and need to tie off and rest.  Only thing nearby to tie off to is some 2" metallic conduit running along the wall or up the wall.  What are my best options to tie by myself while holding tension on the loaded rope??

These are two real situations I have ran into in the last couple weeks at work.

By "conduit", I assume you mean pipe.  I'd probably use Round Turns plus a Backhand Hitch.  A boring answer again, but it should work.

What did you use?
« Last Edit: March 27, 2013, 04:06:53 PM by knot4u »

Mike

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Re: Secure hitch for perpendicular pull on a smooth pipe or rod??
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2013, 02:27:53 AM »
I used a couple round turns and two half hitches..It worked ok, but I am always looking for that "BEST ONE for this particular scenario"

TMCD

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Re: Secure hitch for perpendicular pull on a smooth pipe or rod??
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2013, 03:14:42 AM »
Mike,
That's an interesting situation you're dealing with at work, can you please provide pictures the next time you tie off the pulley rope.

I tied off a sixteen foot walkboard the other day while the rope was under tension and used a round turn and two half hitches. As I fumbled around trying to figure out what knot I wanted to tie, I quickly realized that throwing a turn was the only option because it stabilizes the load while you're finishing off the two half hitches. It's very difficult to tie a buntline or two half hitches in this scenario because of the tension on the rope. The round turn becomes a must with tension on the line.

knot4u

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Re: Secure hitch for perpendicular pull on a smooth pipe or rod??
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2013, 04:07:43 PM »
Well let me give you another scenario. I'm pulling the load up via a pulley overhead. I have the load halfway to its destination and need to tie off and rest.  Only thing nearby to tie off to is some 2" metallic conduit running along the wall or up the wall.  What are my best options to tie by myself while holding tension on the loaded rope??

These are two real situations I have ran into in the last couple weeks at work.

If you are skilled knot professional, then you may try this option.  Hold the tension with one hand and tie a loop on a bight by using the other hand.  A slipped overhand is doable.  Even a slipped Fig9/Fig11/etc., is doable. I just tied these knots quickly with one hand without any practice. Then, tie a good old Trucker by using the conduit/pipe as the second anchor (the first anchor being the pulley overhead). However, if there is no concern with keeping the load at a precise level, this option is overkill.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2013, 04:39:37 PM by knot4u »