Author Topic: Another variation of the TackleClamp hitch.  (Read 22526 times)

TMCD

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Re: Another variation of the TackleClamp hitch.
« Reply #45 on: February 01, 2013, 03:18:50 AM »
I did manage to tie the five or six turn version of this knot and couldn't budge it, but man is it fiddly to tie. It is a neat knot in the mechanical advantage that it creates and the smaller version which I can move for some reason, is a great binder knot, although fiddly to tie.

X1

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Re: Another variation of the TackleClamp hitch.
« Reply #46 on: February 01, 2013, 09:12:18 PM »
the smaller version which I can move for some reason ... fiddly to tie.
   

   If you do not wish to lose some valuable time, to read and answer even a single one of the 8 points I have mentioned at Reply#42 (1), you will remain the only one that was able to tighten a 2 wrap Pipe hitch so tightly that it did not move, while, at the same time, an equally tightly tightened 3 / 4 wrap TackleClamp hitch did... I guess we will manage to survive with this enigma unsolved - after all, life would be so boring without some mysteries, would nt it ?  :)

  Although the TackleClamp hitch needs 3 tucks to be tied, I do not believe that it is a "fiddle" knot - because there is a symmetry, a repetitive pattern to its tying method as well as to its final form. Also, in the case of one accessible end of the pole, or two accessible ends of the rope, it can be tied much more easily, as shown at a previous post.

1.   http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4224.msg26281#msg26281
« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 09:13:56 PM by X1 »

X1

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KnotMaker drawing of TackleClamp hitch
« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2013, 11:55:48 PM »
   The latest version of KnotMaker, with many new useful functions, at :

   http://daveroot.netau.net/knotmaker/

   Download the program, then open the attached .km file with it.
   At the drawing, notice that the "black wave" goes "over" everything /everywhere , except of the two segments of the two U s ( the "blue" and the -inverted- "red" ) that kiss each other at the middle of the hitch. There, it goes "under". One has nothing else to pay attention to, except this.


« Last Edit: February 02, 2013, 03:45:20 PM by X1 »

X1

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Re: Another variation of the TackleClamp hitch.
« Reply #48 on: February 03, 2013, 06:33:19 PM »
I feel that the load applied to the lower side (right side in my picture) allowed for the elongation and perhaps better resistance to the initial sliding.

   I have seen that, when the hitch is not tightened to the maximum degree, or when it has been released just a little bit, the loading by the lower side is preferable, indeed. In this case, the rim of the higher round turn does not push the adjacent to it round turn, and then all the other lower round turns - and so it does not force them to to be inclined towards the same side. When the hitch is loaded by the lower side, the lower round turn will be inclined towards the one, the lower/right side, while the higher round turn will be inclined towards the other, the lower/left side. ( When the hitch is loaded by the higher side, all the round turns will be inclined towards the same side, the lower/left one ). I still feel that we should better load a maximally tightened hitch, or a hitch with more wraps, by the higher side - but I will not bet anything on this, while the tests are under way !   :)

And I'll happily tug away to try and confirm this. ;-)
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 06:59:31 PM by X1 »

SS369

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Re: Another variation of the TackleClamp hitch.
« Reply #49 on: February 03, 2013, 10:18:00 PM »
I feel that the load applied to the lower side (right side in my picture) allowed for the elongation and perhaps better resistance to the initial sliding.

   I have seen that, when the hitch is not tightened to the maximum degree, or when it has been released just a little bit, the loading by the lower side is preferable, indeed. In this case, the rim of the higher round turn does not push the adjacent to it round turn, and then all the other lower round turns - and so it does not force them to to be inclined towards the same side. When the hitch is loaded by the lower side, the lower round turn will be inclined towards the one, the lower/right side, while the higher round turn will be inclined towards the other, the lower/left side. ( When the hitch is loaded by the higher side, all the round turns will be inclined towards the same side, the lower/left one ). I still feel that we should better load a maximally tightened hitch, or a hitch with more wraps, by the higher side - but I will not bet anything on this, while the tests are under way !   :)

And I'll happily tug away to try and confirm this. ;-)

And I have tugged happily and it has reaffirmed my opinion that the better leg to pull for lengthwise resistance is the lower leg as it is oriented in the picture I posted.

I have loaded it the maximum my strength can barehanded, using the paracord again and 6mm accessory cord. The increased elasticity of the paracord, I believe, aides in the functioning of this clamping hitch.
The 6mm cord wasn't suitable for the smaller diameter pipe, but worked well on the next size I had, being 1-5/16 inches outside diameter.

Pulling the upper leg can induce movement of the entire structure along the pipe surface, whereas the lower leg does not. It only elongates the coils and acts like other gripping hitches, e.g., KC hitch and rat tailed stopper, etc., in the cords I have tried it with.
To me this is a plus, not a detriment.

If it were other than very slick surfaces, this simpler variation would be locked in place, because it will deform the material it is tied around due to the mechanical advantage it develops.

SS

TMCD

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Re: Another variation of the TackleClamp hitch.
« Reply #50 on: February 03, 2013, 11:08:38 PM »
SS,
Can you move the smaller version, 4/3 wrap with your bare hands like I can? I went to the 5/6 wrap version and couldn't budge it but can move the 4/3 every time and I'm quite confident I'm tying it and tightening it correctly...it does have tons of Mechanical Advantage. There's just not enough meat in Xarax's smaller version, or at least not enough to stop me from pulling it up and down. 

It could be that the combination I'm using, paracord/slippery wooden pole, the 4/3 just can't grip on the polyurethaned wooden surface. The Pipe Hitch, Icicle Hitch and others grip every time, even with low numbers of wraps.

X1

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Re: Another variation of the TackleClamp hitch.
« Reply #51 on: February 04, 2013, 12:23:39 AM »
the 4/3 just can't grip on the polyurethaned wooden surface.

   I guess you mean the (3,4) TackleClamp hitch ( the version presented in this thread ), and not the (4,3) one ( presented at (1)).
   I had never thought that the (3,4) version would be the "knot of choice" for a hitch able to withstand a lengthwise pull around a very slippery pole! I had presented this version with the minimum number of wraps (3,4), just to show how it is tied. If I am going to pull a really slippery pole, I would go at least to (5,6), and, if the load is heavy, to (7,8) - as we do with the Pipe hitch. The same is true for the Double Cow hitch. I prefer to use its 6 wrap version, although I had mostly shown the 4 wraps one. 
   I repeat that the TackleClamp family of hitches, has been an attempt to improve on the simple-hitch-a-la-Gleipnir multi-wrap hitch (2) - and the various "tight" hitches presented at (3). However, most probably it will be used as a binding knot - as the single or double Strangle and Constrictor knots, or the beautiful Dan Lehman s S binder (4). The simpler, very easy to remember and to tie 6 wrap Double Cow hitch (5), would be adequate for most "tight" hitches application, I guess.

1.  http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3813.0
2   http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=2075.msg16893#msg16893
3   http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3794.msg22241#msg22248
     http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3794.msg22241#msg22241
     http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3794.msg22252#msg22252
4   http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1451.msg10074#msg10074
5   http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4035.msg25143#msg25143
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 01:30:12 AM by X1 »

X1

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Re: Another variation of the TackleClamp hitch.
« Reply #52 on: February 04, 2013, 12:54:22 AM »
the next size I had, being 1 5/16 inches outside diameter.

   I had never tested this hitch around such a small diameter pole !  :)  I prefer bigger ones ( usually, the 3 inch tubes shown at the pictures),  because it is much easier to be tied there with the 1/2 inch climbing ropes I use - and because I believe that, given more rope length wrapped into its "coil tube", it can be easier/safer to it to accumulate strong tensile forces inserted during the pre-loading phase, without them being able to "escape" through the "locked" ends.
   Thank you very much, SS369. Now, please, take a deep breath, and test the (5,6) version !  :) Then, compare it to the 6 wrap Double Cow hitch, for the same purpose ( lengthwise pull ). The Double Cow hitch can be loaded by both ends, which might offer an advantage - the two "coil tubes" there would be tightened more evenly, so they might grip the surface of the pole more efficiently - although their round turns can not tightened as much as the round turns of a genuine TackleClamp hitch.

TMCD

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Re: Another variation of the TackleClamp hitch.
« Reply #53 on: February 04, 2013, 02:17:06 AM »
You're correct X, the 3/4 wrap is the one I can move up and down, the 5/6 I can't budge but it's a little tricky for me to tie. I'll learn it though because I sit around in the winter time and fiddle with my paracord/painters pole all day, especially if I'm not doing much. I sometimes walk around with cordage in my pockets, am I the only one on here that does that?

BTW, I need to learn that Double Cow version, it looks neat....and I agree 100%, these knots are excellent binding knots....the 3/4 wrap is an awesome little binder.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 02:20:05 AM by TMCD »

X1

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Re: Another variation of the TackleClamp hitch.
« Reply #54 on: February 04, 2013, 03:40:16 AM »
I sometimes walk around with cordage in my pockets... am I the only one on here that does that?

   Nooo:) :) :)

   Just another "mnemonic" to tie the (3,4) TackleClamp hitch, when there is one end of the pole available ( so we can tie it like the Pile hitch). Follow the attached pictures, and the instructions :

1-. Start from a shape "8" form. Now you have two bights - wraps.
2-. Pass the two ends from below, through those two initial bights, to form two more. Now you have all the 4 bights - wraps.
3-. Twist the bights you have formed at the first step, both counter-clock wise ( if you see left bight from the left side of the knot, and the right bight from the right side of the knot ). Now you have all the 4 bights - wraps, in their correct final orientation regarding the penetrating pole.
4-. Arrange the two ends "over" the rest of the knot, as shown at the picture, so that the lower one becomes the left side end, and points upwards, and the upper side one becomes the right side end, and points downwards. Penetrate the hitch with the accessible end of the pole, through the path shown with the red line.

   P.S. The most simple pictures to illustrate how to tie the Double Cow, are the third and the fourth, shown at the Reply# 5 :
   http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4035.msg24345#msg24345
   Just two common, single Cow hitches, the one next to the other. The only thing one has to notice, is the path of their shared second leg ( because it has to "lock" the two standing ends ).
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 03:42:57 AM by X1 »

TMCD

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Re: Another variation of the TackleClamp hitch.
« Reply #55 on: February 04, 2013, 05:09:25 AM »
Very interesting X, your knotting mind is very fertile and I'm almost embarrassed to report that yes, I mastered the Double Cow and it does generate lots of MA. 

Please keep posting your newbies, you have a clever and innovative mind for knotting matters...I can at least report that I like/love to learn these knots.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 05:11:19 AM by TMCD »

xarax

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Re: Another variation of the TackleClamp hitch.
« Reply #56 on: August 05, 2014, 07:09:37 AM »
   Recent drawings of the TackleClamp hitch, made possible by the latest version of KnotMaker, which is to be published soon.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 06:43:21 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

xarax

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Re: Another variation of the TackleClamp hitch.
« Reply #57 on: June 24, 2015, 12:54:43 PM »
   I tied and pre-tightened as hard as I could ( with my bare hands ) the (3,4) TackleClamp hitch around a 75mm sleek PVC tube, I loaded it with my full body weight from its "lower" end, and then I started jumping / bouncing on a loop tied on this end. The hitch was elongated, its wraps were re-positioned obliquely in relation to the axis of the tube and they got slightly elliptical forms ( the lower wraps were elongated much more than the higher, as shown in the attached pictures ), but that was it. The hitch refused to slide downwards any more. I reckon that, tied on this material, wrapped around such a slippery surface, and pre-tightened as much, it could withstand a 150kg lengthwise pull - but for a heavier load, and ceteris paribus, I guess that even this most tight hitch would require another full wrap at its middle ( so it would become a (4,5) wrap TackleClamp hitch ). The pre-tightening of the wraps is a means to increase the efficiency of the existing number of wraps of a multi-wrap gripping hitch, but it does not eliminate the need for even more wraps, when/if the load gets even heavier !
   Now, one may ask : With an even heavier load, why one would tie this hitch with (4,5) or (5,6) wraps, which is not easily or quickly tied and dressed, and not just two Double Cow hitches, with a sum of (4 + 4 = 8 ) wraps, the one next to the other ? Good question !  :) :) The Double Cow hitch is not as tight as the TackleClamp hitch, so we would need more wraps to hold the same lengthwise pull - but it is tied and dressed almost instantly (1), it can be untied with some difficulty but it can be untied nevertheless ( a not-slipped, tightly pre-tensioned TackleClamp hitch can not ! ), it is TIB, and, conceptually, it is a much simpler and familial knot.
   I can not predict what the average knot tyer would prefer : a gripping hitch with fewer wraps but not as easily tied and dressed, or a gripping hitch with more wraps, but as simply, easily and quickly tied as the Double Cow hitch. I do not use the knots I tie - I am not a knot-user !  :)   I am satisfied when I meet a knot which is, structurally, more efficient and secure than the others that consume about the same amount of material. If we do not care about that ( about the required ropelength of the knots ), I guess that any sufficiently convoluted knot can do any job : with a sufficiently large number of wraps, any gripping hitch can withstand any lengthwise loading - even if those wraps are not pre-tightened at all.

1. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=5212.0
« Last Edit: June 24, 2015, 09:14:14 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

xarax

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Re-tackled TackleClamp hitch
« Reply #58 on: August 24, 2015, 05:38:11 PM »
   A classic beauty.
This is not a knot.

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Re-tackled TackleClamp hitch
« Reply #59 on: August 25, 2015, 09:09:48 PM »
   A classic beauty.
Aesthetically, perhaps.
But for working, not so :
one will find specious "tightening" as the pull
will just move rope around the spar,
rather than tightening it in place
(insofar as one can do anything, with the considerable
friction of rope-on-rope!).

One needs to be circumspect vs. this specious tightening!
 :-\

--dl*
====