Author Topic: Shoelaces  (Read 5346 times)

Wakey

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Shoelaces
« on: January 07, 2013, 04:43:21 PM »
Anyone have a good alternate shoe-tying knot?

Luca

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Re: Shoelaces
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2013, 05:05:53 PM »
Hi Wakey,

Perhaps the best resource available on the web about it:

http://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/knots.htm

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kd8eeh

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Re: Shoelaces
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2013, 03:13:40 AM »
I have seen this site before, and it is really comprehensive.  A couple other things to consider;
1. This site starts all of their knots with a half knot.  A double half knot may instead be used, as well as some other fun things i will let you play with
2. If you want to be really showy about it, several two strand chain sinnets may be easily adapted to be tied in shoelaces.  It eats up enough rope, and you are left with a short-enough decorative chain on your shoes.  For some sinnets, see the abok chapter on chain sinnets.  I like an idiots delight, because it is so rewarding to untie  your shoes.

Mathpro73

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Re: Shoelaces
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2013, 07:11:10 PM »
Here is an interesting TED talk about how to tie your shoes
http://www.ted.com/talks/terry_moore_how_to_tie_your_shoes.html

Wakey

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Re: Shoelaces
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2013, 08:36:14 PM »
I discovered I've been tying my shoes in feeble atrocious granny knots for decades. 
« Last Edit: January 09, 2013, 05:37:02 PM by Wakey »

Luca

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Re: Shoelaces
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2013, 12:33:48 AM »
You're not alone! And then maybe not so feeble and not so atrocious, it seems: the video posted by Mathpro73 reminded me of the existence of this post, where it is explained that, setted in the right way, the Granny should not be so bad at the end:

http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3965.msg23556#msg23556

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« Last Edit: January 09, 2013, 12:39:22 AM by Luca »

James Petersen

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Re: Shoelaces
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2013, 04:28:51 AM »
I discovered I?ve been tying my shoes in feeble atrocious granny knots for decades.
Don't feel bad. Where I live, children are taught to tie their shoes in first grade(primary one). But it turns out that many of my students, university students included, tie their shoes with a granny knot.

The most remarkable case I have come by was in a shoe store, of all places. I noticed that the shoes had all been laced with the working end moving from the bottom to the top of the holes (is there a word for the holes on each side of the tongue?). But at the last hole, the lace went from top to bottom, making tying the shoe somewhat clumsy, at least for my big hands. When I asked the owner the reason for this, she said, "The shoelaces don't get loose so quickly that way." I then asked her to tie a pair of shoes for me to see, and, you guessed it, she tied a granny knot. Now, what do you say to an adult who, by profession, should be able to distinguish a granny knot from a square knot, or at least distinguish between the two, but cannot. I took the coward's way out -- I left well enough alone. ;)

kd8eeh

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Re: Shoelaces
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2013, 03:53:28 AM »
When i use either a granny or a square, i find myself needing to repeatedly retie my shoes.  I figured that is noteworthy.

Many times, i see other people tie their shoes with a granny knot.  It doesn't seem to naturally lay right.  However, the ugly truth, a good third of the people i see wearing shoes with laces have the laces tucked into the sides of their shoes, probably with no idea how to tie them.  I also often see people who leave their shoes prepetually tied, for fear that should they untie they will never remember how to tie them.  The problem, i think, is in the methods we teach children to tie shoes, and the amount of practce sustained.  Many shoes no longer require laces, and so people have no need to practice, and loose their skill.  Another frequent problem is that they learn to tie the knot by tying first a half knot, then another half knot between bights of the rope.  Coupled with the teachers having no idea the differences between the square and granny knots, this method often leads people to tie all half knots one way, as it feels most comfortable.  The best method to teach is probably the ian knot (see the site above) as it immediately becomes very awkward not to dress the knot correctly, and also it is by far the fastest, simplest, and most direct way to tie it, if a bit more teaching may be required.  Unfortunately, not enough people have enough regard for their shoelaces to bother learning this. 

knot4u

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Re: Shoelaces
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2013, 03:29:43 AM »
These are the same knot:

http://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/secureknot.htm
http://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/surgeonknot.htm

He points out the equivalence in step 6.  I enjoy tying this knot when I want to ensure things stay together.  However, it's difficult if your laces are short.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2013, 03:38:29 AM by knot4u »

knot4u

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Re: Shoelaces
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2013, 03:41:20 AM »
You're not alone! And then maybe not so feeble and not so atrocious, it seems: the video posted by Mathpro73 reminded me of the existence of this post, where it is explained that, setted in the right way, the Granny should not be so bad at the end:

http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3965.msg23556#msg23556

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I don't know about that.  I've had bad experiences with a Granny.  I don't see the point if a Square is just as easy to tie, holds better, and is idiot-proof.

bbknot

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Re: Shoelaces
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2013, 07:41:22 AM »
I purchased a pair of work boots that had both eyelets and hooks.  If I looped the hooks before tying a bow knot the boots were uncomfortable and the bow knot would loosen up.  I solved the problem by...
1. Tying an overhand knot in the end of the laces.
2. At the top eyelet tie the first part of a surgeon's knot.
3. Then tie a bow knot and pull the overhand knot up snug to the bow knot.
4. Using the bow loops I tie a loose reef knot on top of the bow knot.
It takes a few extra seconds to untie the loose square knot, but the laces stay comfortably tied all day without coming loose.

Luca

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Re: Shoelaces
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2013, 12:54:37 AM »
Hi knot4u,

I was one of those children who learned much early to tie their shoes, but I learned "bad" (the Granny);although I later changed this habit  at a young age(bad experiences), I had become so used to it, that I suffered some difficulties to take on the new habit to tie the Reef: Even after I learned to run it in a relatively automatic manner, if I was lost in thoughts, or even for the hurry (a bad counselor! They say in my part!)I found myself having still done the Granny,during a certain time.When I read the post I mentioned above about the  setting of the Granny as knot for shoes, I was intrigued, and I said to myself: "I'll try".Well,due the("new",but at this time, very old) habit, the thoughts,and the hurry, in fact I've never done(I do not know if Wakey wants to try it,or if  wants to try the Reef or other solutions/ variations).So,take my post like a quotation, and very cowardly I tell you: ask Dan Lehman!

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P.S.But in what sense the Reef would be "idiot-proof"? Many people that tie the shoelaces would seem to testify that this knot not only is not"idiot-proof",but also that is not "more clever than an idiot-proof"!This knot seems made to be done in the "wrongranny"way!




knot4u

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Re: Shoelaces
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2013, 09:25:23 AM »
I purchased a pair of work boots that had both eyelets and hooks.  If I looped the hooks before tying a bow knot the boots were uncomfortable and the bow knot would loosen up.  I solved the problem by...
1. Tying an overhand knot in the end of the laces.
2. At the top eyelet tie the first part of a surgeon's knot.
3. Then tie a bow knot and pull the overhand knot up snug to the bow knot.
4. Using the bow loops I tie a loose reef knot on top of the bow knot.
It takes a few extra seconds to untie the loose square knot, but the laces stay comfortably tied all day without coming loose.

I don't get it.  I read it a few times.

Keystoner

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Very long shoe laces
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2013, 02:20:25 AM »
Assuming you don't want to cut the laces and melt the ends (BTW, if you do do this, only cut the extra slack from one end so that you don't waste two aglets), after tying your shoelace knot of choice, what is a good knot to take up the slack of very large bights and loose ends?

Wakey

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Re: Shoelaces
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2013, 04:53:14 PM »
I'm a huge proponent of developing muscle-memory; prestidigitation, Rubik's, golf-swing, juggling...and knots.  My shoe-tying has been automatic (wrong) for decades. Now I can't un-see those side-set grannies.  It's a surprisingly difficult subject to broach with people, even kids. Nobody wants be corrected on something so seemingly simple.

 And yet they have to retie their shoes several times a day..
« Last Edit: January 14, 2013, 05:56:49 PM by Wakey »