Author Topic: Knot Charts  (Read 4819 times)

75RR

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Knot Charts
« on: January 04, 2013, 01:12:26 PM »
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« Last Edit: August 18, 2013, 12:43:27 AM by 75RR »

Sweeney

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Re: Knot Charts
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2013, 08:02:29 PM »
Hi 75RR.  I have split off this last reply to a separate topic in case anyone else is interested.

The knot charts were developed many years ago (some authors have since passed away) before the Internet was as developed as it is today. There has been occasional interest in the charts but websites such as www.animatedknots.com and the many thousands of YouTube videos have rather superseded our charts. I would like to see publication of those knots (the Gleipnir being a classic example) which are not known outside of this Forum but a video is much more likely to catch the attention of knot tyers. That said maybe the Gallery on the website could be used to better effect?

Barry

squarerigger

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Re: Knot Charts
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2013, 06:34:29 AM »
Nice drawing!  I assume that this is created using a drafting app of some sort?  It is certainly very clearly laid out.

SR

Sweeney

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Re: Knot Charts
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2013, 09:51:48 AM »
It is indeed a very clear drawing and in my opinion well worthy of inclusion in the knot charts (it just needs a top & tail with the logo etc but that only takes a few minutes).

Barry

X1

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Re: Knot Charts
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2013, 02:17:08 PM »
   1. Any "list of knots" is arbitrary - but I believe that there are some that are more arbitrary than most of the others !  :)
   2. It would be nice if you could present your selection in a 3D PDF file format ( since 2004, PDF is able to represent a 3D artwork, e.g. it supports Universal 3D file format).  This way one can rotate and see the object from any angle - which is a very useful thing, especially for complex 3D objects, like the knots. (See the attached file - click and drag at the picture).
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 02:21:27 PM by X1 »

X1

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Re: Knot Charts
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2013, 03:59:03 PM »
One would normally like posters to stick to the point, or failing that, to offer practical suggestions.
But what the hell, at least you posted! :)

 Is nt the suggestion of the 3D PDF presentation practical enough to you ?
 If not, stick to your point... :)

Bob Thrun

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Re: Knot Charts
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2013, 05:05:13 PM »
   (See the attached file - click and drag at the picture).
I expected the Path.pdf to require the latest and greatest version of the reader, which will not run on my system.  The 9 KB file size seemed aawfully small.  When I downloaded it, I found it to require Acrobat 4, which is an old version.  The picture is of a single page fo white paper. showing nothing.

X1

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Re: Knot Charts
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2013, 05:28:25 PM »
   No, you misunderstood my suggestion... The 3D PDF file format is a very easy to make and use mainstream file format ! When you have the 3D object designed in whatever CAD system, you can present it in this format very easily and quickly ! It is a very convenient form of presentation - the author can show what he wishes to show without presenting more views of the object ( with knots, we have to show at least two views, the "front" and the "back" ), and the reader can see the object from many view angles, using the same file. With a knot, it pays if you can rotate and see it from any angle you wish, because this offers you a "feeling" of the object, like the one you have when you hold the knot in your hand. When you are able to rotate the knot image, you are also able to follow the paths of the rope segments into the knot s nub, so you are able to understand the knot much more that when you see one or even more 2D image of it. Moreover, and this is also very useful, the reader can choose to see any individual part of the knot he wishes - so he can see the one only link of the bend, the other, or both, for example.
   Just look at the size of the two files : Your file is 59 Kb, while mine s is only 9 ! However, with the 3D PDF file you can rotate, translate, zoom, pan, etc. the object, which offers you some valuable sense of the real 3D object - it feels almost like you have it at your palm !
   I have seen all the different common methods of presentations of knots, including the video-based ones, and I believe that this is the most easy to make ( for the author) and to watch ( for the reader). With videos, you are not able to interact with the object the way you wish - you can see the knot from many sides and angles, but only from the particular sides and the angles the author has chosen... and with the sequence and speed of scenes he has chosen - which may not be the ones you wish.
   Believe me, interactive models of knots is the easiest and more useful way to follow. There are plenty of software programs that, once you have the CAD file, can do the conversion to a 3D PDF file at no time.
   I have posted my pointless comment  :) because you had already mentioned your wish to "show the value of PDF files" - so I thought that the file of the simplified rope segment path I had shown was just such a PDF file. The technology is there since 2004, so it is not something that is "new" and untested. It is not steel compared to wood, it is just steam engine compared to atmospheric engine ... :) 
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 05:50:58 PM by X1 »

X1

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Re: Knot Charts
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2013, 05:30:37 PM »
I found it to require Acrobat 4, which is an old version.

The free Adobe Reader is all it needs...
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 05:49:49 PM by X1 »

X1

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Re: Knot Charts
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2013, 06:33:49 PM »
   I have no 3D modelling experience, no do I have 3D modelling Software. The creation of 3D PDFs may be as simple as you say, I however have no way of creating the original 3D model in the first place.

  Not needed !  :) The (technology) trend is our friend.
  I have a soft spot on FREE software, so have a look at Autodesk 123D :
 
  http://www.123dapp.com/

X1

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Re: Knot Charts
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2013, 08:54:58 PM »
necessarily arbitrary, suggestions for the 20 odd knots that will go to make up the booklet.

Let me propose two dozens. ( I do not expect that even one more knot tyer would agree on more than half of them... but that is the meaning/beauty of the "arbitrariness" of my suggestion !  :) )

ABoK#1991 (Weston) knot
Alpine Butterfly Midline loop
Ashley s bend
Blackwell hitch
Bowline loop
Buntline Extinguisher
Carrick X bend
Constrictor
Double Cow hitch
Double 8 bend
Double Fisherman s knot
Double Harness bend

Gleipnir binder
Overhand knots adjustable binder
Prussik friction hitch
Rat tail stopper
Janus bowline(s)
Locked Cow hitch
Strangle knot
TackleClamp hitch
Trucker s hitch
Tweedledee bowline
Water bowline
Zeppelin bend

Bob Thrun

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Re: Knot Charts
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2013, 03:41:45 AM »
I found it to require Acrobat 4, which is an old version.


The free Adobe Reader is all it needs...
I said Acrobat 4 as shorthand for Acrobat Reader 4.  My point was that the attached Path.pdf file is not as advertised.  It is indeed 9 Kb, which is very small for a PDF or image file.  Acrobat Reader shows, under Document Properties, that the file claims to meet PDF 1.3 (Acrobat 4.x) standards, no higher.  There is nothing in the file, just white with no detail.  And Acrobat Reader 9 will not run on my system, whether it is free or not.

SS369

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Re: Knot Charts
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2013, 03:53:45 AM »
I use Adobe reader version 9.5 and have found the file to work well. Although I did have to click on the screen once to show the graphic.

The tools all work as they should.

SS

X1

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Re: Knot Charts
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2013, 04:09:26 AM »
It is indeed 9 Kb, which is very small for a PDF or image file. 

See ? And it is not only an image file, it is an interactive 3D image file !  :)

And Acrobat Reader 9 will not run on my system, whether it is free or not.

Just go to :
http://get.adobe.com/uk/reader/
and download the thing...
The system requirements are described there, too  ( click : "System requirements". If you have a different operating system, click : " Do you have a different language or operating system ? ")
Save the file, then open it, click and drag on the object shown.

There is no acrobatics involved, I can assure you... :)

(You DO NOT need Acrobat XI - which is a PDF editor...You only need a PDF reader, i.e. Adobe Reader.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 04:18:32 AM by X1 »