Author Topic: Rope Belt Knot  (Read 19515 times)

IPAtch

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Rope Belt Knot
« on: December 19, 2012, 02:45:26 AM »
So a few years ago my roommate needed a belt, so we broke out a retired (6mil) anchor, cut it to fit (we doubled it around his waste), and viola. I showed him how I would tie it, basically a 3 way sheet bend (since one end is just a bight). See the first photo of it tied in my 5 mil belt. He has since discovered he prefers to tie an overhand knot, as pictured in the second photo, again modeled on me.  And yes, I realize if I were to use real models, I would probably get a lot more responses, or at least views.

Now before I get to the inevitable question, I want to endorse using rope as a belt. It works great, its stronger than I will ever need it to be, and if I am in need of some rope (and if you are on this forum, you know how frequently that can be) I have some. Better still, I am not distracted, using it to tie knots all day, because any time I use it for knot practice, my pants might fall down. Finally, it keeps a passion of mine, knot tying, close to my... ummm... heart.

But the question is, what knot is better for this application? They both take about the same amount of cord, which is required because the belts are cut almost exactly for that length. He thinks the overhand is easier to tie, I disagree, but he might be right for tying it around your waste, it probably is easier to keep tension while tying the overhand, and easier to learn/remember because its almost instinctual to tie an overhand. Also, when it comes to untying (occasionally the single most important issue) I again think they are similar, while he thinks the overhand is easier. They both seem to be plenty secure, he used one and then the other for at least a year with no wardrobe malfunctions.

My preference is clearly the sheet bend, maybe only because I prefer to be a little bit more clever than an overhand. But I gotta admit, he might be right about the overhand being a better choice, because its universally known and by every other measure they seem to be about equal.
 
And any other suggestions for knots? Like I said, belts are already cut, and neither of us are going to lose any weight, so the knot can't require more rope than what's is available.

And one last minute addition, growing up in scouts we tied "commando belts" by putting a large eye splice in one end of three strand sisal rope, and a small eye splice in the other around a toggle. The idea was to teach us splicing, not to use them as belts, because they weren't tight, and not to link them together. We were told commandos did it this way because if one or two guys had all the rope, and didn't make it to the cliff, then everyone else was screwed, so everyone carried some. Not that I think rope belts will catch on anytime soon, instead maybe my preference for rope belts originated then.

X1

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Re: Rope Belt Knot
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2012, 04:25:58 AM »
   Have a look at those bight-to-bight bends, shown at the attached pictures.

roo

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Re: Rope Belt Knot
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2012, 05:55:04 AM »
And any other suggestions for knots?
I probably wouldn't ever use a rope belt myself, but I'd tend to look for options that minimized tying & untying.  You don't really have a bight-to-bight situation, but a bight-to-twinned-ends scenario.

What you could do is just take the twinned ends, and just tie a permanent stopper knot.  With a stopper knot acting as a button, you could try passing the stopper through the bight.  For better security, you could pass the stopper through a lark's head or a properly-sized Butterfly Loop made from the bight instead.

The last option would probably be my preference if I had to wear such a belt.
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James Petersen

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Re: Rope Belt Knot
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2012, 01:08:06 PM »
I wear Carhartt button T-shirts nearly 365 days a year.  I don't tuck them in, and in the winter I simply wear more layers over them, sometimes including jackets or coats without elastic at the sleeves and the bottom. In really cold weather I tie a friction hitch in a piece of soft rope for a belt to keep the cold air off my belly. Since I learned the Gleipnir hitch, I also use a variation to secure the rope.  It is tied two ends attaching to  a bight as you do with your rope belt.  For lack of a better name I simply call it a Gleipnir buckle.

X1

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Re: Rope Belt Knot
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2012, 05:35:46 PM »
 
a Gleipnir buckle.

   A very nice knot ! I believe it is a slipped variation of a dL s binder ( #34, #35 ). ( At the original Gleipnir(s), the two ends of the nipping loop are leaving  towards oposite directions. ) There are many binders one can use - see (1)(2)(3). You could also try the simplest one I can imagine (see the attached piocture), and tell us how you feel !   :)

1) http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1870.msg17907#msg17907
     http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1870.msg17914#msg17914
 2) http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=2996.0
 3) http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=2981.msg17780#msg17780
     http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=2981.msg17782#msg17782

roo

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Re: Rope Belt Knot
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2012, 06:04:22 PM »
And any other suggestions for knots?
I probably wouldn't ever use a rope belt myself, but I'd tend to look for options that minimized tying & untying.
As a follow-up, if you're OK with always tying a knot, you could just leave one of the twinned ends longer than the other, thread the longer end through the bight side and tie a doubly-slipped reef knot as seen on your shoes.
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James Petersen

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Re: Rope Belt Knot
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2012, 06:46:37 PM »
 
a Gleipnir buckle.
...You could also try the simplest one I can imagine (see the attached piocture), and tell us how you feel !   :)

 1. an overhand knot based adjustable binder.JPG

I like that knot. A lot like a bowstring loop, but in the form of a bend/adjustible binder -- a "bowstring binder"??

IPAtch

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Re: Rope Belt Knot
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2012, 09:27:04 PM »
I just tied the Gleipnir buckle, well see how it "holds up"

Thanks for all the suggestions, made me think maybe I should be not just looking at tying off the two ends to the bight, like Roo said, either use make a "button" or a reef knot. Or maybe a reef knot tied to the bight, like such. This actually might work pretty well, and it would allow for a clever way of removing and tying it, by converting the bight to a larks head, and feeding the two ends through.

James Petersen

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Re: Rope Belt Knot
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2012, 09:25:58 AM »
 
a Gleipnir buckle.

   A very nice knot ! I believe it is a slipped variation of a dL s binder ( #34, #35 ). ( At the original Gleipnir(s), the two ends of the nipping loop are leaving  towards oposite directions. ) There are many binders one can use - see (1)(2)(3). You could also try the simplest one I can imagine (see the attached piocture), and tell us how you feel !   :)

1) http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1870.msg17907#msg17907
     http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1870.msg17914#msg17914
 2) http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=2996.0
 3) http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=2981.msg17780#msg17780
     http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=2981.msg17782#msg17782

After considering X1's comments and checking out the links, I realized that I could simply use a Gleipner hitch on the bight if simply swapped places with two of the strands. This seems a bit neater, however the working ends now lay perpendicular to the standing ends. For use as a binding hitch rather than a belt knot as in this thread, I like this arrangement in that it doesn't depend on pressure from below to keep the knot tight as does the constrictor or the strangle hitch.

X1

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Re: Rope Belt Knot
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2012, 02:53:29 PM »
   If you re-tuck the one or both ends through the nipping loop once more, you will return to the secure knot of your first post...or somewhere very near to it.  :)
« Last Edit: December 20, 2012, 02:54:00 PM by X1 »

James Petersen

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Re: Rope Belt Knot
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2012, 03:22:51 PM »
   If you re-tuck the one or both ends through the nipping loop once more, you will return to the secure knot of your first post...or somewhere very near to it.  :)
I had thought of/tried that, but it is a little bit harder to untie than I am interested in using as a belt knot -- could lead to some embarassment.

SS369

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Re: Rope Belt Knot
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2012, 04:49:59 PM »
Hello IPAtch and welcome.

I use cord for a belt when climbing to attach my chalk bag. I don't like it fixed in place on my harness so I use a doubled length of accessory cord. I take the bight end and tie a double sheet bend using the two tails. I can then reposition the bag pretty much anywhere I care to.
The tails are usually oriented downward, but that is personal preference.
Has always been secure and easy to untie when desired.
The coils look pretty good too.
Could even triple it. ;-)

SS

X1

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Re: Rope Belt Knot
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2012, 05:20:38 PM »
I am interested in using as a belt knot -- [that form of the knot] could lead to some embarassment.

This reminds me of a post long ago...

I also believe that I am one of the few persons [who] now ties his pants with the help of a Gleipnir,

May your necessities not be urgencies.   :D

GrogKnots

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Re: Rope Belt Knot
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2012, 12:58:09 AM »
If you are prepared to add some hardware, this sliding splice can be adapted to make a wonderful adjustable rope belt:
http://www.animatedknots.com/slidingsplice/index.php

IPAtch

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Re: Rope Belt Knot
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2012, 01:42:35 AM »
ss369: That's a good idea, right now my roping chalk bag is clipped to my harness and my bouldering chalk bag is a chalk bucket that my girlfriend some years back made, it looks like a liter of beer with the foamy white part at the opening.

Grogknots: I actually had checked out the sliding spice before, but didn't notice the rope belt part, could you explain that rope belt a little? Does the sliding splice stay act as an adjuster so you can tighten or loosen the belt? Is it mainly a utility belt, allowing you to belay your tools to your person when you are, say, in a bosun's-chair?

And the Gleipnir buckle knot is excellent. I am really impressed how secure it is, how easy it is to tighten, as well as release. The only issue with it for a belt knot that I have found has been the free ends aren't together or tucked away. But that is certainly a knot I will find some other applications for.