Author Topic: Eskimo Bowline on a Bight  (Read 16198 times)

IPAtch

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Eskimo Bowline on a Bight
« on: December 11, 2012, 05:43:37 AM »
While tying a double loop from ABOK last night, I got a little side tracked, thought I knew what to do next, and ended up with this. As you can see in the image with the loops together, it looks just like an Eskimo Bowline, but on a bight. After some time, I did figure out how to tie it on a bight, its actually not hard, but I didn't take pictures. I can post directions/pictures if anyone is interested. Tying it with an end is straight forward enough though.

The two loops communicate readily (if you pull one, that one lengthens while the other shortens) when the loops are splayed, but when pulled tight, the loops come together and lock.

I looked through ABOK, then online, and don't see much, even on the eskimo bowline. Anyone know anything? I feel like I must be missing it, it just seems too basic not to be out there.

roo

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Re: Eskimo Bowline on a Bight
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2012, 06:18:44 AM »
While tying a double loop from ABOK last night, I got a little side tracked, thought I knew what to do next, and ended up with this. As you can see in the image with the loops together, it looks just like an Eskimo Bowline, but on a bight. After some time, I did figure out how to tie it on a bight, its actually not hard, but I didn't take pictures. I can post directions/pictures if anyone is interested. Tying it with an end is straight forward enough though.

The two loops communicate readily (if you pull one, that one lengthens while the other shortens) when the loops are splayed, but when pulled tight, the loops come together and lock.

I looked through ABOK, then online, and don't see much, even on the eskimo bowline. Anyone know anything? I feel like I must be missing it, it just seems too basic not to be out there.
Interesting.  The name is appropriate.  Upon reverse-engineering the structure, I'm beginning to wonder if there really is an easy on the bight method of tying this that would prevent it from being a by-a-diagram-only curiosity or puzzle.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 06:19:38 AM by roo »
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IPAtch

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Re: Eskimo Bowline on a Bight
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2012, 01:52:34 AM »
Took photos today so here are the instructions.

Start with the running cows hitch, twist it so you get a loop in the standing part of the line, then pull the cross-member of the cows hitch (the only part that isn't doubled) down and around the loops, then pull tight.  Pretty easy.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 01:53:32 AM by IPAtch »

X1

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Re: Eskimo Bowline on a Bight
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2012, 06:08:56 PM »
You've offered on a silver platter the opportunity for my tremendous ;D(and pusillanimous :-[)revenge!(ABOK #1126, page 205)

   Thank you, Luca. Mea culpa (my fault), IPAtch.

   Luca, keep reading and editing all my threads, and I will offer you MANY such opportunities !   :)
   Believe it or not, I had not realized that the knot was TIB ! That makes it an even more interesting double loop.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 06:12:28 PM by X1 »

Luca

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Re: Eskimo Bowline on a Bight
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2012, 06:20:03 PM »
Believe it or not, I had not realized that the knot was TIB ! That makes it an even more interesting double loop.

I believe it, because if I had not had a chance to view the page of Ashley, I would not have even imagined that this noose could be TIB!

alpineer

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Re: Eskimo Bowline on a Bight
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2012, 06:38:47 PM »
Nice job IPAtch. Thankyou.
Green Flash, Ballast Point... [San Diego IPA's are the best].
alpineer

roo

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Re: Eskimo Bowline on a Bight
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2012, 06:44:44 PM »
Took photos today so here are the instructions.

Start with the running cows hitch, twist it so you get a loop in the standing part of the line, then pull the cross-member of the cows hitch (the only part that isn't doubled) down and around the loops, then pull tight.  Pretty easy.
Thanks for the steps.  I'd still wonder if there's a more fail-safe method of tying, but I'll leave that aside for right now.

I found a flaw with this double loop.  When pulling on one standing part and one loop, the unloaded loop shrank.  That material was being fed to the standing part under load.   The shrinking loop was associated with the upper coil.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 06:45:40 PM by roo »
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X1

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Re: Eskimo Bowline on a Bight
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2012, 06:49:50 PM »
   A somehow relared TIB bowline ( I am sure that Luca will discover it somewhere, so I call it "Luca s TIB bowline ".  :)

Luca

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Re: Eskimo Bowline on a Bight
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2012, 11:21:59 PM »
   A somehow relared TIB bowline ( I am sure that Luca will discover it somewhere, so I call it "Luca s TIB bowline ".  :)

X1! But,of course,everyone knows that this is nothing more than an ordinary  Yosemite version of a loop version of the fig.8 bend for cables and wires!

http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3716.msg21487#msg21487

No OK, I really do not think I've ever seen, and I'm a bit embarrassed,because now there is a knot that bears my name, and I do not even know well how to tie it on the bight!(I have seen that this can be done, but as say roo,I have not found an easy/memorable method for this loop;however, a method that I personally use to determine if a knot can be TIB,starting from a knot already done, is merely to try to untie it without use the ends of the rope,trying to run in the reverse order of when running the knot starting from zero)


I found a flaw with this double loop.  When pulling on one standing part and one loop, the unloaded loop shrank.  That material was being fed to the standing part under load.   The shrinking loop was associated with the upper coil.

roo(hi),this is true, but a similar issue also affects the well known Bowline on the bight.

X1

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Re: Eskimo Bowline on a Bight
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2012, 12:19:25 AM »
now there is a knot that bears my name, and I do not even know well how to tie it [in] the bight

   Well, that is a revenge !  :) :)
   Keep trying !  :) ( I had offered you a hint with this "somehow".... Use it.

( Of course, everyone knows that this in nothing more than an ordinary bowline with a fig.8 collar...  :) )
One can dress it in a number of ways, but I think the shown one is the more secure. )
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 12:40:32 AM by X1 »

Luca

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Re: Eskimo Bowline on a Bight
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2012, 02:17:06 AM »
Well, that is a revenge !  :) :)
 Keep trying !  :) ( I had offered you a hint with this "somehow".... Use it.
You have defeated me again![I'll try to solve the puzzle(for a memorable method)], but .. you are able with the Yosemite bowline?(I do not, it will be another puzzle for me ..)

( Of course, everyone knows that this in nothing more than an ordinary bowline with a fig.8 collar...  :) )

I prefer to stay in my opinion jokingly referred above,also because (in this case)I do not understand the meaning of "fig.8 collar"(which in this loop,to me resembles a"bight-like"collar(or,maybe,in this case,a"loop-like"collar),as happens in the standard bowline,while it goes around the SPart), maybe,about this loop,I can understand something similar to"incomplete double fig.8's nub"!

                                                                                                          Bye!

P.S. Really if I can not solve the riddle you not will reveal the solution? Please do not punish me!Be magnanimous, despite my excesses..I give up!
 
                                                                                                     

   


« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 02:25:47 AM by Luca »

X1

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Re: Eskimo Bowline on a Bight
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2012, 03:14:39 AM »
the meaning of "fig.8 collar

  I used the word "collar" in place of the more accurate "collar structure". In bowline-like (PET) loops, whatever is tiable-tied ante (before) the eye is the "nippimg structure", because it nips the tail so it remains attached to the standing part. Whatever is tiable-tied post (after) the eye, is the "collar structure" , because it helps the balance of the nipping structure ( so it remains "closed", and does not open up and degenerate into an helix ) - usually with the help of a collar. So, if you see what is not the nipping structure, the nipping loop, you will see what is the collar structure, the collar... :)

I give up!


   Not sooo easy ! :)
   I gave the hint "somehow" to indicate that you should tie your TIB loop starting from the TIB ABoK#1126... like the Eskimo bowline on the bight presented in this thread.   

Luca

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Re: Eskimo Bowline on a Bight
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2012, 05:41:40 PM »
Solved!(Thanks for the hint)
Often the simplest solution is right under the nose and one can not see it!
This(MY! ;))loop is exactly the same of ABOK # 1126:simply grab the Cow hitch's loop that is closest to the double noose, and let that the double noose shrinks around one of the legs of the fixed loop that in the meantime is magically formed(just 1 second!),by pulling on the SParts.The other loop of the original Cow hitch becomes the collar(or a part of the collar:I think I understand what you mean with your words about it, because,in fact,tying this loop using the end (and using the "right" Spart), what appears to be a doubling of the nipping loop, is actually an extension of the collar)of the fixed loop(which yes, you're right, it's a Bowline:you think that I noticed this only when I started to try to do the same trick with the Yosemite, realizing only at that time that it is actually the same knot!Wath a shame! :-[).

                                                                                                                 Bye! 

X1

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Re: Eskimo Bowline on a Bight
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2012, 06:35:55 PM »
   Yes, but you should better present this sequence of moves with pictures or simple drawings, so it would be much easier to somebody that is not already familiar with your knot, to understand it. See the nice pictures by IPAtch, how mush easier were able to explain the same thing that were previously had to be described by words. 4 pictures do the same job, and sometimes much better, than MANY words !  :)
   I do not understand why we should accompany our voice with a picture, and not our knot !  Oh, I fotgot it, you do not have a cell phone... !  :)
   Generally, it very difficult to realize, just by looking at one knot, if it is topologically equivalent to another, or not. This is also happening with the TIB or the non-TIB knots - the human brain can not perform mentally the nessesary sequence of "Reidemeister moves" that transform the TIB knot to the topologically equivalent unknot.
   

alanleeknots

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Re: Eskimo Bowline on a Bight
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2012, 06:23:32 PM »
Hi All,
I have a loop here able to transform to IPAtch's loop and reverse back to zero.
I have hard time to follow using wording describe knotting matter.   have some picture of the knots, will make life easy.

Thanks,    alan lee