Author Topic: Look alike loops  (Read 72825 times)

alanleeknots

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Re: Look alike loops
« Reply #60 on: April 12, 2013, 04:47:44 AM »
Hi All,  I have two loops here, first photo is Eskimo+overhand knot loop, well secure.  second photo is Eskimo+Figure 8 loop, well secure and 3 ropes diameter on both nipping loop.
Sorry, I am working out of town, so I don't have anything to test it, that all I can tell you.

Thanks   alan lee.

« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 04:48:39 AM by eric22 »

X1

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Re: Look alike loops
« Reply #61 on: April 12, 2013, 01:51:24 PM »
   The first loop shown above is just an "Eskimo" bowline, where the returning eye leg makes a 360 degrees turn around the rim of the nipping loop, before it makes the collar. I do not believe that the collar of the standard "Eskimo" bowlines suffers so much in this respect, so we should try to alleviate the pressure on it applied by the returning eye leg. On contrast with what we see in the case of the common bowline, this returning eye leg has already made a 90 degree turn on the point it meets the rim of the nipping loop, its form is already L-shaped, so a further complete round turn there would not offer much more. If one really wants to strengthen the join there, he should better encircle the crossing point of the nipping loop as well, as you have already done in other loops you have tied.

X1

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Lee s "Eskimo" 8 loop - a second variation.
« Reply #62 on: April 12, 2013, 02:07:59 PM »
   I am glad when I already have a file on my computer where I can put a new knot, as a variation of a previously presented one. Moreover, when the new knot that is to be shorted there is as beautiful as the already filed one, I am really happy !
   Click, Knots - Click, bowlines and other post-eye-tiable eyeknots - Click, Lee s eyeknots - Click- Lee s Eskimo 8 loop - Click, Rename, Lee s Eskimo loop (A) - Click, Paste, Lee s Eskimo loop (B), - Click, Close. I am done ! That is a nice sunny spring day, which starts well !  :)
   I will try to pin point any structural differences that may differentiate the behaviour of those beautiful eyeknots some other day. Today, let me tie this knot on different ropes, and just enjoy the sight of it. 

« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 02:13:37 PM by X1 »

alanleeknots

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Re: Look alike loops
« Reply #63 on: April 14, 2013, 06:36:33 AM »
Hi X1,  Thanks for everthing, I have a  simple and convenience loop here, I can not find anything wrong with it, I have a little doubt myself, seem like little simple to be true. may be I have miss something. like to hear from you.
Thanks   alan lee.

X1

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Re: Look alike loops
« Reply #64 on: April 14, 2013, 07:33:34 AM »
I can not find anything wrong with it... seems like [too] simple to be true, maybe I have missed something.

   No, you have not missed anything, that is a fine crossing knot + overhand knot loop. It is us, the knot tying community, that had missed the opportunity to explore those very simple and safe eyeknots...

   See :
http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3944.msg23427#msg23427
http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3962.msg23525#msg23525
http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4095.msg24591#msg24591
http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4095.msg24592#msg24592
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 06:16:08 PM by X1 »

alanleeknots

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Re: Look alike loops
« Reply #65 on: April 16, 2013, 06:36:55 AM »
Hi All,   Look alike loops, Loop A and B are the some loop, Just move the nipping loop to the left and right, this loop is little more complicate to tie, Just another loop does exist and interesting,and I like to share with.
Thanks for the reply X1.

Thanks   alan lee.



X1

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"Same or Different" Lee knots
« Reply #66 on: April 16, 2013, 11:58:23 AM »
   Congratulations, Alan Lee.

   Those two pairs of twins are the most "similar" eyeknots we know - and I bet they will remain the most similar ones, for ever  !  :)
   They could serve as a kind of "Same or Different" Knot puzzle - I believe that many knot tyers would fail to recognize which is which at the first sight - I myself have tied them many times, but I need to "retrace" visually the paths of the lines carefully, before I am able to distinguish them...
   For such pair of end-to-end knots / bends  ( the Strangle bend, and the re-tucked Matthew Walker 2 strands bend ),  see (2), and the attached picture.

1. http://www.interestingtopics.net/two-pairs-of-twins-on-same-date-id-547
2. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1919.msg16859#msg16859
« Last Edit: April 16, 2013, 12:27:30 PM by X1 »

alanleeknots

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Re: Look alike loops
« Reply #67 on: April 19, 2013, 04:44:41 AM »
    Hi All,  Just another loop that I like,  simple, easy to tie, well secure and easy to untie.
    Thanks again X1.  Thanks   alan lee
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 04:47:00 AM by eric22 »

X1

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Re: Look alike loops
« Reply #68 on: April 19, 2013, 05:55:24 AM »
   Another crossing knot + overhand knot loop. See (1),(2),(3).
   I had just discovered that many of those loops are tiable-in-the-bight (TIB). That offers an advantage, because one can tie them as end-of-line bowline-like loops, or as midline loops. Since you have shown great skills in manipulating TIB loops, you can possibly discover more of those simple, versatile, self-stabilizing and secure knots, based on the crossing knot "nipping structure" plus the overhand knot hitch / "collar structure". The task is to secure the tail in the most favourable area within the knot s nub, in between the standing part s and the returning eye leg s first curves - and to keep the standing part s first curve as wide as possible.

1. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4095.msg24592#msg24592
2. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4354.msg27284#msg27284
3. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4354.msg27287#msg27287
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 05:56:16 AM by X1 »

alanleeknots

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Re: Look alike loops
« Reply #69 on: April 22, 2013, 05:49:31 AM »
Hi All, Thanks for the reply X1, I have a good looking loops here, have some similar look to my loop at (Reply #65 ), this loop is more then complicate to tie. One you dress it up, it settle in compact form,and become a close knot.  If you like knots you have fun tying it.    Thanks   alan lee

X1

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Re: Look alike loops
« Reply #70 on: April 22, 2013, 11:43:10 AM »
this loop is more than complicated to tie.

   Say that again !  :) I had tied it wrongly three times before I was able to understand what you have been coming after here ...
   When knots start to look like two or more entangled clefs, I believe we have better change the tune !  :)
   The collar structure is too complicated, while the nipping structure remains too simple. Also, the 'back" side view of the knot is ...well, not pretty.  :)

 

alanleeknots

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Re: Look alike loops
« Reply #71 on: April 23, 2013, 04:52:13 AM »
**correction this is the picture i meant to attach as the other picture had the wrong top 2 loops.

Hi All, Thanks again for you time X1, again another twin loop, just move the nipping loop to the left or right.
I thinks she is alright and nice looking too.
Thanks   alan lee.


« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 02:42:06 AM by eric22 »

X1

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Re: Look alike loops
« Reply #72 on: April 23, 2013, 11:16:55 AM »
   I prefer the "lower" ( second + fourth in the row ) "second" variation, where the turn around the standing part s leg lies "outside" the nipping loop. Those double parallel segments form a very nice, compact knot, no question about that. However, I still do not like the somewhat odd sight of a simple, single AND narrow nipping loop entangled with such a complex, double collar. Something like a very fat, tall woman embraced by a very thin, short man... :). At the other, the "first" variation, the nipping loop is wider, indeed, but the dressing is more tricky, and requires some care, otherwise the knot, under heavy loading, will degenerate into the "second" variation ( or something in between ). In general, I believe that the fact two topologically identical but geometrically and structurally different knots ( "bistable" knots ) can easily - and/or by lack of proper care during their tying - be transformed the one into the other, although very interesting, may be confusing - and it may be confusing for the experienced knot tyers, too... See (1). Also, see the similar DDK s 3 "locked bowline" (2)(3).
 
  1. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4201
  2. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=19.msg20960#msg20960
  3.  http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=19.msg20961#msg20961
« Last Edit: April 23, 2013, 12:26:26 PM by X1 »

alanleeknots

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Re: Look alike loops
« Reply #73 on: April 25, 2013, 03:05:01 AM »
Hi All,The interesting Twin loop that I  have, can transform to third variation, now it make thing little easy, have clearer picture how to tie this loop, we can make a normal bowline and add an additional tuck you have 3 in 1 loop. I think this one is better than other 2 variation.
Last picture as X1 suggestion, I think not bad too. That all I can write, see the picture will tell everything.
Thanks    alan lee.


alanleeknots

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Re: Look alike loops
« Reply #74 on: April 26, 2013, 05:53:09 AM »
Hi All, The loops on reply #71 and #73  have two pair of look alike loops, I got to it sort it out , make it easier to see, other wise I got myself confused too. ( first variation  with  IMG_1277 ) and  ( second variation  with  third variation )
Thanks alan lee.