Author Topic: Bowline with tucking the end  (Read 3608 times)

zoranz

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Bowline with tucking the end
« on: August 23, 2014, 04:38:23 PM »
Leafing through old newspapers I found this variant Bowline with tucking the end. Is this a good quality lock? Does anyone know more about this? My primary interest is is to leave rope in the sea without pressure/tension. (For example over the winter, my boat is not in the mooring, but anchor and ropes wait late spring...) I would not like to find the bowline open :)

Thx, best regards
ZZ

roo

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Re: Bowline with tucking the end
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2014, 05:20:14 PM »
Leafing through old newspapers I found this variant Bowline with tucking the end. Is this a good quality lock? Does anyone know more about this? My primary interest is is to leave rope in the sea without pressure/tension. (For example over the winter, my boat is not in the mooring, but anchor and ropes wait late spring...) I would not like to find the bowline open :)

Thx, best regards
ZZ
You have to take care in forming this knot so that it keeps it's intended form.   When I tried it in some stiff and slick rope, it didn't take too much movement before it started to spring apart.

If you have more forgiving rope, it may not be an issue.  If you have more difficult conditions, you may have to resort to a Water Bowline, a single/double Zeppelin Loop or even a Monsoon Bowline at the highest security extreme:

http://notableknotindex.webs.com/waterbowline.html

http://notableknotindex.webs.com/zeppelinloop.html

http://notableknotindex.webs.com/monsoonbowline.html
« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 05:36:22 AM by roo »
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Dan_Lehman

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Re: Bowline with tucking the end
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2014, 05:37:06 AM »
Leafing through old newspapers I found this variant Bowline with tucking the end.
Was there text associated with, related to, this knot
in the paper?  If so, please share that.  (I can imagine
that the image doesn't match the words --typical.)

Quote
Is this a good quality lock? ... My primary interest is is to leave rope
in the sea without pressure/tension. (For example over the winter, my boat
is not in the mooring, but anchor and ropes wait late spring...) I would not
like to find the bowline open :)

Thx, best regards
ZZ
No.  As Roo notes, firstly it takes care in formation.
Secondly, there really isn't any gain in slack-security
from the extension (to the original bowline).

I don't know if this is still a valid URLink, but our Agent_Smith
has compiled a batch of bowlines which includes some that
are secure when slack:
www.paci.com.au/downloads_public/knots/02_Bowlines.pdf

Now, referring to the image you've presented,
here's a decent variation:
 take the tail around the left eye leg in the
 opposite direction (so, crossing first behind it);
 and then swing it all the way over to encompass
 the other eye leg,
 AND THEN tuck it down through the turn it just
 formed and the central nipping loop.
In this variation, one binds the legs of the eye
and so hold the central nipping loop's nip of things,
and gain security that way.  (The SPart can still
ease through the collar into the knot, but it won't
loosen the nipping turn with this finish holding
that fairly tight.  YMMV with conditions, but this
I think gives one a pretty good knot in many cases.)


--dl*
====
« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 05:43:33 AM by Dan_Lehman »

xarax

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Re: Bowline with tucking the end
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2014, 05:43:21 AM »
   Could you find a worse "re-tucked" bowline ? I believe not !  :)
   The position of the Tail End is critical : if it is re-arranged, either by an accidental pull of it, or by some push on the nub coming from outside, the knot is destroyed.
   It has been customary to some members to "utilize" threads, to advertise ones s merchandise, be it a mediocre site or a mediocre knot, like the ones referred to in the previous post. I will only say this : Tie a "secure" two-collar bowline, with a double or a single nipping loop.
   If you can spear a few more milliseconds of your brain and/or fingers time, tie a TIB bowline : In boating, in particular, it is always safe and nice to tie PET but also TIB knots. For a good-looking, round, and possibly strong nipping loop, use a wide one, encircling three rope diameters - although the "practical" effects of such a choice are still debatable, and not proven experimentally.
   However, one thing is certain : you will NOT lose anything by just reading or have a look at the bowlines presented in this site !  :)  They will not bite you !  :)
   
   
« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 05:44:42 AM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

zoranz

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Re: Bowline with tucking the end
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2014, 01:30:08 PM »
Was there text associated with, related to, this knot
in the paper?

There was only one sentence about picture, and with help Google translator (with some my modification) it is:
Bound bowline before tightening the working end of the rope through the nipping turn of which is tunneled between the locks they fought and the standing end of the rope within knot, and only then tightens.
(Not enough clear, but the picture is not bad...)

ZZ

zoranz

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Re: Bowline with tucking the end
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2014, 04:11:56 PM »
My interest for this bowline is only of principled nature.

BTW, I really did not want to experiment with it. Last year I made a bowline with Yosemite finish, and also a water bowline; and after 4 months I have inspected them. I was surprised. They were very stiff, much more than when I made them. There was not a chance to open accidentally. The reason was a sea vegetation. Hundreds of marine animals were embedded on the surface of the rope. Knot was quite compact, as pasted. To untie the knot I firstly had to use a hammer and break the shells...
ZZ

xarax

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Re: Bowline with tucking the end
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2014, 07:02:19 PM »
  The mere presence of salt in the water ( which creates salt crystals into the previously wet materials ), makes knots tied on already stiff marine ropes even stiffer. No wonder no sailor ever ties "secure" bowlines...
This is not a knot.