Author Topic: Best way to finish ends of solid braid nylon rope  (Read 34734 times)

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Best way to finish ends of solid braid nylon rope
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2012, 07:43:52 PM »
Hmm, that's an interesting idea Dan and I'll have to try it. I certainly know that one can tie a constrictor from one end of rope, but as you stated, can we properly tighten it so it's becomes secure.

NB: the constrictor orients the tails to lie perpendicular
to the bound object(s); whereas the strangle makes them parallel.
For whipping purposes, the latter seems a better fit.

Quote
I like French Whipping too, what would be a better way to secure the end in that scenario??
I've never been a big fan of the way Ashley and others describe tucking it back under the last few HH
...not even sure how that part works. Any ideas Dan?

The common whipping structure makes for a more secure
finish, and is easily done.  (And, it might be used in the first case,
of securing the two tails of west country whipping
--just a different approach into what might better be more
than a mere half-hitch in the first-shaped end!).
One can take an extra measure of forming this finish loosely
enough to take the tail out through it's final turn, then
hauling the turns down tight, then hauling the tail out
the last tuck snug --my thinking being that there will
not be very little draw on the tail's final tuck, and that
u-turn into it will arrest whatever draw might come
on the tail through the multi-wraps.  --a battle with time.

In the simpler case, though, it's rather easy to put on
the finishing wraps pretty tightly, then haul them fast
by the now-bound-by-them tail,
in contrast to somehow doing that per-Ashley tucking
under some several prior half-hitches, IMO.


--dl*
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saildude

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Re: Best way to finish ends of solid braid nylon rope
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2012, 08:47:47 PM »
For double braid I use the whipping as posted by @asemery in Reply # 13 - http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4026.msg24078#msg24078

For quick whipping I use waxed whipping twine (appropriate size) and one or two Double Constrictor Knots - reef the knots down tight and you will need to cut them off -

I have used Double Constrictor Knots on three strand line up to 1.5 inches in diameter - used about 1/8 inch braided Dacron line and reefed the knot as tight as I could - worked well

If you are burning (melting) the end of a line - I found that you need to tape the ends of the line to keep things together - using a flame usually sets the end of the line or tape on fire for a moment - better to heat up an old knife blade if you can - I have a hot knife now so I can cut and fuse the line at the same time - then I put a whipping on the end of the line -

If it makes any difference almost all my line use is on boats

TMCD

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Re: Best way to finish ends of solid braid nylon rope
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2012, 10:27:16 PM »
I really like Cap. Mike's version of a quick whipping, that looks super strong.

I've decided I'll probably start using the Double Constrictor for my whippings. It's so much faster and easier to tie and it certainly appears more than capable as a whipping in it's own right. One knot I've tried to master is the Boa Knot and I just don't like it. The D. Con. is easier for me to tie.

staunchmop

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Re: Best way to finish ends of solid braid nylon rope
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2012, 10:29:28 AM »
Thanks, I'll definitely try that whipping on braided rope!

Also, Dan, I am in fact a bit confused about your strangle knot whipping. It's a bit hard for me to reproduce from your written description earlier in the linked thread (I don't have the best sense for whipping knots, at this point). But I'd like to give it a try, if it works as well as you say and is easy to tie! Also, I respect the way you recycle materials for your whippings, but I have plenty of twine on hand :)

Sweeney

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Re: Best way to finish ends of solid braid nylon rope
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2012, 12:01:56 PM »
Generally I use a strangle knot with 3 or 4 wraps around a kirby grip (in the USA a Bobby pin*) using the round end to pull the twine back through to complete the knot.

*For those unfamiliar with either here's a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_pin

Barry
« Last Edit: August 31, 2012, 05:53:45 PM by Sweeney »

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Best way to finish ends of solid braid nylon rope
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2012, 06:13:43 AM »
Generally I use a strangle knot with 3 or 4 wraps around a kirby grip (in the USA a Bobby pin*)
using the round end to pull the twine back through to complete the knot.

Ha, it just now occurs to me that one could effect the strangle
using common whipping technique : i.e., set up the central
overhand crossing of the tails AND THEN make the wraps around
it all (which though requires that one has access to the rope end),
and pull out the excess on setting it tight --which, yes, should
see considerable build-up of torsion from the wrapping.
... which leads me to muse about other techniques & structures,
of strangles in a series ...  !

   :)

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Dan_Lehman

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Re: Best way to finish ends of solid braid nylon rope
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2012, 02:58:51 AM »
Also, Dan, I am in fact a bit confused about your strangle knot whipping.

The structure is simple to describe : it's a multiple strangle knot
--with the particular "multiple" selected according to the
materials and other concerns.  Given that whipping generally
runs longer along the rope (about equal to its diameter,
maybe longer), I add wraps to the strangle towards that
lengthening.

And as I found that with more wraps the knot's buried
crossing-part ("overhand")  seemed too short, I put in a
2nd tuck/twist of that --two vs. one (the same sort of thing
done with a the surgeon's knot compared to the square/reef ).
(The additional tuck can be made with one end after making
the knot w/just one tuck --like the way to make a constrictor
from a clove hitch (though, with multiple wraps, one might
need a little working to get the twists evenly beneath wraps).
In the 5/16" to 1/2" or so ropes I play with, nylon mason line
seems to work well with 5 or 6 wraps (as counted looking at
the face where one can see each end ; add 1 to looking at
the parallel parts on the opposite side), and the nylon fish
line I've used needs more, 7-9 (it's less flexible and the
center double twist runs longer).

To this base, I wanted a way to be efficient with material
(i.e., not having to estimate length and then cut off a lot),
do tried starting with the initial end short (with a stopper
end for purchase of forceps/pliers/fingers), and then the
finishing tuck done with a bight --so that after the
adding of a common whipping finish with this bight,
I would haul out line and trim it most efficiently, only the
slight length of the initial end being lost to the cause!

Along the way, I realized that other things could be done,
such as --upon completing the strangle part but yet to
tighten the common whipping closure-- pulling some
of the rope fibres back over the strangle and tucking them
beneath turns of the finish.  (This isn't something readily
possible with solid braid, I guess.)

Only when making a reply above did it occur to me that
the strangle knot could be tied with common whipping
technique (which, re torsion, might not suit some stuff)!


To emphasize : one can build the strangle without much
tension, AND THEN pull hard on the tails to set it TIGHT.

I do use pliers or pound the knot with something hard
(or rolling it could work) as a means to getting the
tension concentrated at the initial turns at each end
of the body worked into the center turns --which I believe
does happen, although I accept that some of the seeming
evening-out of tightness could come from simply losing
some of that tension to the tails (drawing them back in).
None of others' whippings that I've held in hand have
had such tightness as I can get.  YMMV.
This seems like a big plus, IMO.


That noted, where one works with lighter materials
or more frictive ones --where it won't be so easy to
deliver much tension into a mulit-wrapped structure,
the binding will be less and the whipping vulnerable
to being slid off (when untying knots, or otherwise).
Other techniques work to help, here, such as somehow
passing the whipping through the rope, and using
a whipping in which one puts tension on each turn
as it's built (e.g., French whipping).
Or that pulling-back-of-some-rope-fibres over the
initial whipping body to be bound beneath a later
put on binding, so that these would have to be
pulled free before the whipping could slide off ... .


--dl*
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firebight

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Re: Best way to finish ends of solid braid nylon rope
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2012, 09:19:31 AM »
For cutting rope, I got one of those cheap wood burning kits with an exacto blade cutter attachment.