Author Topic: superficial loops  (Read 4238 times)

alanleeknots

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superficial loops
« on: July 31, 2012, 12:00:24 AM »
Hi All,
I have  some loops here, see if it worth while to talk about ? beside this I have a new video called One handed Chopping Knots at youtube to share with.

Thanks  alan lee

alanleeknots

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Re: superficial loops
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2012, 12:03:04 AM »
Hi All, add more loops here.

Thanks alan lee

X1

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Re: superficial loops
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2012, 04:15:22 AM »
  Regarding the loops at the first post :
  (The first one is different from the other three, which are quite similar- they are all based upon a "Pretzel"-like nipping structure, with two nipping loops crossing each other at the centre.)
   At the first loop, the eye-leg-of-the-standing-part, when it will be aligned with the standing end, it will tend to pull out the second leg of the collar - and when this happens, the whole second collar is elongated, and then the whole knot is elongated.... I believe it is a wrong consent.
   From the other three loops, the second one can be described as a sort of "Pretzel" bowline- but the collar is not around the standing end - as it is in the "Long" Pretzel bowline (1), or even around the eye-leg-of-the-standing-part - as it is in your third loop ( an "Eskimo" Pretzel bowline ) -, but around the rope segment that bridges the two interlinked nipping loops. A very interesting idea !
   ( The last loop suffers from this coil-like collar around the nipping loop s rim, which should be avoided in all knots, I believe...)
  See a  picture of the "Pretzel" nipping structure, which reveals its -simple - geometry in a much more comprehensible way than than the way it is shown at the pictures of the loose knots of this first post...

1) http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1940
« Last Edit: July 31, 2012, 04:27:41 AM by X1 »

X1

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Re: superficial loops
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2012, 11:25:53 AM »
   Regarding the loops at the second post.
   We have three more lend-of-line loops, based upon the two interlinked nipping loops, Pretzel-like nipping structure. Here the working end coming from the eye enters the Pretzel central opening ( where it is nipped most effectively, being encircled by both nipping loops) from the opposite side, from the one shown in the attached picture of my previous post.
  1st loop. The coil-like collar structure of this loops seems poor, in comparison to the fine nipping structure.
  2nd loop. The coil-like collar has an orientation that makes the second leg pass underneath, and be squeezed by the first leg, in an effective way. Perhaps it is the vertical orientation of the nipping structure that justifies the use of a not-proper collar here. ( I like this loop, and I suggest you should name it. Together with the "Lee s Pretzel loop", the second loop that you presented in your previous post, these are the best lops of this thread. ( I think that at the "Lee s Pretzel loop" the second leg of the collar is squeezed under the first leg more effectively, but the difference might be insignificant.)
   3rd loop. I see no reason to pass the working end through the Pretzel like this...Both legs of the collar should penetrate the double nipping loop, otherwise a gret portion of the true potential of this structure will remain unused.

X1

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Re: superficial loops
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2012, 04:18:07 PM »
   This is the "classic" Pretzel bowline ( with a "proper" collar ), where the eye-leg-of-the-bight enters the interlinked nipping loops central opening directly, just as it does in the knots presented by Lee. It comes in two variations ( A and B ), depending upon the side from which this leg enters the opening. The first ( the A) variation is shown in this post, and the second ( tha B) will be shown in the next one. The "Lee s Prezel loop" ( the second loop of the first post ) is more sophisticated, but this simple variation is also/already a very secure knot. See also a simpler relative, at :

  http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=2050.0
« Last Edit: July 31, 2012, 08:13:05 PM by X1 »

X1

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Re: superficial loops
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2012, 05:35:09 PM »
   And here are the second ( B) variation, of the same Pretzel bowline. As the Pretzel nipping structure is asymmetric, the two knots differ, but they are both easy to tie and to inspect, quite secure end-of-line loops.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2012, 08:14:16 PM by X1 »

X1

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Re: superficial loops
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2012, 11:07:22 PM »
   Some time ago, I had tied another form of a Pretzel bowline, that I used to call "Twisted Pretzel bowline". I reproduce the pictures here, so the interested reader can have a complete view about those interesting loops, that are based upon the Pretzel double nipping loop structure.

Dan_Lehman

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Re: superficial loops
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2012, 04:07:56 AM »
Hi All, add more loops here.

Thanks alan lee

The middle-pictured knot looks exactly like a zeppelin eyeknot
(in this not-so-clear photo, middle of 3).  If you made the initial
turn of the SPart in the other side and then formed the 2nd
turn beside but not through the first, you would have
both of the axis-of-tension-aligned central parts being of the
SPart, with its collaring done around the eye side, and the
tail contributing (all of) the holding-together perpendicular
turn and the collar around the SPart.  It would be interesting
to compare behavior of this to the zeppelin eyeknot --I'll guess
that this described one will be easier (even) to untie (as the
SPart's collar will not have much tension on it).

--dl*
====

X1

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Re: superficial loops
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2012, 06:05:29 AM »
The middle-pictured knot looks exactly like a Zeppelin eyeknot
(in this not-so-clear photo, middle of 3).

  All the knots pictured in this thread are based upon a Pretzel-like two interlinked  nipping loops structure - so no knot looks even remotely to  the eyeknot corresponding to the Zeppelin bend. I would rather say they do not bear ever a superficial  resemblance with a loop corresponding to the Zeppelin bend. The reason is clear : In the Zeppelin bend, the two loops are parallel to each other, and linked only indirectly, through the tail pair that penetrates them as the pivot penetrates the two parts of a hinge. In the knots pictured in this thread, the two nipping loops embrace each other ( like they do in the Hunter s  bend, for example). However not-so-clear is a picture, it can not hide this clear fact, I am afraid...( A text  can do more about this, of course !  :) )
« Last Edit: August 03, 2012, 06:08:31 AM by X1 »