Author Topic: Locktight Loop reference?  (Read 2856 times)

rusco7614

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Locktight Loop reference?
« on: April 18, 2012, 12:39:39 PM »
Can anyone point me toward more info on Dan Lehman's Locktight loop(s)?

It's mentioned in one or two threads, but I can't find any info on it (photos, diagrams, etc). The only thing I could find was the following (dead) link: http://www.iland.net/~jbritton/KnotPhotoContributions.html on Hillary Nelson's 'Full Nelson Loop Knot' web page.

Many thanks,

Russ

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Locktight Loop reference?
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2012, 05:43:33 PM »
Quote
Can anyone point me torward(s) more info on Dan Lehman's Locktight loop(s) ?

Hmmm, you'd think that someONE might be well placed
to do just that!   ;)

Verbally, hold your line in one hand, with sufficient tail to form
the eye, and with the line running out along/atop one's index
finger, turn the SPart and wrap back over itself & finger 1-3 times,
and make a final wrap over & directly around the line (so, it
turns between line & finger, here) : this is the basis of the
knot, and the tail, after forming the eye, returns to replace
one's finger, collaring the SPart at the far side (the ol' "out
of the hole, around the tree, back into the hole" passage
of the bowline).

The design goal was to get a tie-in eyeknot for rockclimbers
(et al.) that would be secure-when-slack and yet easily loosened.
The variation arose (IIRC) to better accommodate stiff rope?
There are some subtleties that might be tweaked for getting
greater strength, I think, as some cases one can see a LOT
of compression where the SPart turns around the tail and
one eye leg, which IMO suggests a weaker point than need
exist; perhaps the careful positioning of the tail so that IT is
what takes the SPart's hard turn(?!).  The great slack-security
comes from the blood knot / grapevine-like overwraps;
the ease of untying comes from the bowlinesque *back door*.

The images done for & presented by Dan Britton are perhaps
yet available --saw them a couple months ago-- at this site

www.pssurvival.com/PS/Knots/Knot_Knowledge_Photo_Illustrations_2004.pdf
 [Locktight I & II, Lehman8, Single Bwl in bight, Fig.8[eyeknot, labeled]]
(my filed notes about this file:
 [ A repeating & slow-loading PDF with some of MY knots as presented to Dan Britton ca. 2001 ]
)
"repeating" meaning that the entire set gets replicated!?

With some time, I might photo & post images here, for ease & clarity.


--dl*
====

rusco7614

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Re: Locktight Loop reference?
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2012, 09:32:28 AM »
Excellent - thanks Dan.

The PDF is still available, but yes - very slow to download, and not very well formatted (notes and corresponding pictures split across pages). Also took me a while to find your illustrations, as they are not in the Single Loop Knots section, but tucked away at the very end of the document. Still, it's good that people make documents like this available for us all to learn from.

Am I correct in saying that your Locktight Loop I is essentially the same as Hillary's 'Full Nelson Loop V2', but with an extra turn in the grapevine-like overwraps?

I've 'lifted' your original sketch from the PDF. Would you be happy for me to post it in this thread?

Russ

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Locktight Loop reference?
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2012, 08:35:52 PM »
Excellent - thanks Dan.

The PDF is still available, but yes - very slow to download, and [...] your illustrations
... are ... tucked away at the very end of the document.

Egadz, yes, at the end-end after earlier parts get repeated!
Well, though, it's much better than nothing!!
(--though I can remedy that)

Quote
Am I correct in saying that your Locktight Loop I is essentially the same as Hillary's 'Full Nelson Loop V2', but with an extra turn in the grapevine-like overwraps?

No, in this sense : I don't see either of us as necessarily
defining the knot by wraps count --there must be some
(which distinguishes it from what Ency.ofKnots&FancyRopework
(aka "Hensel&Gretel") calls the "twist bowline"--, but the number
doesn't make a (big) distinction.  --certainly not for me, anyway;
and I'll give equal freedom to others.
(So, in this eyeknot, you see that it arose to two individuals,
separated by some years & unknown other distances.  I can report that
mine was a somewhat goal-directed search/"fiddling" --which is more
than I can claim for many less-frequently-encountered-knotted-structures.
The separation isn't much, viewed in the context of the use of ropes;
it comes --perhaps tellingly?-- after the advent of synthetic materials
and richer variety of braided constructions; this, however, doesn't
seem so relevant to Hilary's exploration, but kernmantle rope
was part the motivation for me.)   ;D


Quote
I've 'lifted' your original sketch from the PDF. Would you be happy for me to post it in this thread?

Yes, Russ, please & thank you.  And I'll not take that as a
liberty not to also putting up an image or few, perhaps of tied
knots, real rope.  (Just snapped a pic of my original drawings.)


--dl*
====

rusco7614

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Re: Locktight Loop reference?
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2012, 11:18:02 AM »
OK - original sketches to get us started:



Russ

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Locktight Loop reference?
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2012, 06:02:02 AM »
Further, (more) original illustrations : my "Y2K" knot,
and kin --variations on a theme ... .

 ;)