Author Topic: Advice before posting a potentially new knot...  (Read 16520 times)

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Advice before posting a potentially new knot...
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2012, 03:18:14 PM »
I have not tried the permutations that you have shown in your
nearly 43 minute YouTube video

Holy Half-Life, Batman!!   :o

As Roo suggests, this is one heckuva lonnnng introduction.
(Joni Mitchell's live "Amelia"s run at about a sixth of this
duration, and will grab me sooner & longer.   ;)   )


Generally, I'm only interested in, and need, seeing the final
knot --not some preliminary multi-minutes of dramatic
preparatory fiddling.  And for this, still shots suffice nicely.


As for the knot more quickly seen in the short video, no,
I've not encountered that previously.  (But, of the myriad
eyeknots I have encountered, this one doesn't look all so
inviting, though is seems to be a not-too-hard-to-untie
fig.8-based knot.  But I'm inclined to reverse the reeving
of the tail through the knot, such that it emerges roughly
between the eye-legs, nipped surely by the SPart.  I might
even (rock)climb with this!)


Thanks,
--dl*
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« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 08:50:19 PM by Dan_Lehman »

TMCD

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Re: Advice before posting a potentially new knot...
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2012, 10:29:48 PM »
I admire your ability to discover a new knot, great job! For me though, it's a little fiddly for my taste and I'm a sucker for the bowline. I just LOVE the simplicity of the bowline and the ease with which it unties even after being heavily loaded. It's very interesting that you were able to design a system of knots, kind of like the Uni Knot in that it's versatile.

Another of my favorite fixed loop knots that gets little play around here is ABOK 1019, AKA the Eskimo Bowstring Loop Knot. It's simple and is stronger than what it gets credit for at least IMO.

Bob Thrun

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Re: Advice before posting a potentially new knot...
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2012, 05:20:06 AM »
I hsve a hard time following knot directions.  I do not even try to folow word directions.  I am not as good as Dan Lehman for looking at a photo of a finished knot from just one angle and telling how it was tied.  I like line drawings, but they take a long time to make.  I looked at the 45-second video.  The fingers got in the way of the cord at times.  It would have been clearer if the cord had been set down at a couple of stages in tying.  Black cord is a poor choice for seeing the edges where the cord crosses itself.  I have  posted some of my photos here and on CaveChat.

SwampRatProductions

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Re: Advice before posting a potentially new knot...
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2012, 02:33:50 PM »
Thanks for all the responses guys !
Perhapse we do have a new knot. If so, what would be the next steps to confirming this?
Not sure if this is possible........I'm going to be teaching a knot tying class june4th. It would be really cool to mention and show my "new" knot system. Any chance of conformation by then?

Keep in mind the knot is mostly intended for paracord. Its other cordage I need your help with.

Yeah sorry about the long vid. If you watch it on a computer, there are now links in the vid so you can jump to a specific knot. The 45sec vid was never really intended to be relased, Hench the poor quality. I only added it so people could get an idea aabout it then watch the looooong vid ;-)  there is also more detailed tying instructions for each knot.

Don't forget to check out the variations as there are probably better than the main knot for diffrent  types of cordage. Also many of the knots, ie adjustable loops, on a bight, can be tied with the variations. So try not to focus on just the forts base knot.
Yeah...I have a hard time following written directions too Bob. I probably would have confused the heck out of everyone if iI were to write about my entire knot series.

Lovin all the feedback, keep it coming.
Anyone have any breaking strength info on paracord or other cordage yet?

Thanks guys!

SwampRatProductions

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Re: Advice before posting a potentially new knot...
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2012, 02:52:59 PM »
Also, just curious,  how often do y'all have "new" knots submitted and or are actually confirmed and put in the magazine?

roo

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Re: Advice before posting a potentially new knot...
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2012, 04:43:02 PM »
Don't forget to check out the variations as there are probably better than the main knot for diffrent  types of cordage.
As you put your variations through various tests, you might look at some other knots as points of comparison:

http://notableknotindex.webs.com/zeppelinloop.html  (Fixed loop, easily re-sizable).

http://notableknotindex.webs.com/slippery8.html  (Adjustable loop)
If you wish to add a troll to your ignore list, click "Profile" then "Buddies/Ignore List".


Dan_Lehman

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Re: Advice before posting a potentially new knot...
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2012, 07:05:53 PM »
I hsve a hard time following knot directions.
I do not even try to folow word directions.
Many traditional (in books) directions are ill-defined
(and sometimes plain wrong, other times incomplete),
so following them isn't a sure path to understanding.
But, of course, not trying seals the deal!

Let's be optimistic, at least in simple knots.

For my indicated variation of the OP's ventures ... :

0. We'll form the eyeknot as though a tying-in to our
harness --i.e., SPart away, eye near.  And the knot is
simply a common fig.8-based knot in the SPart
finished by reeving a bight into it with the tail (as a
bowline is a loop married to a bight).  There
simply isn't much to explain here, vs orienting the
fig.8 and specifying the simple reeving!

For the sake of clockface directions, consider the
SPart's "away"ness to be UP (12:00), et cetera.


1. Tie a fig.8 knot by bring the SPart through
12:00 w/curve towards 7:30 and then turning it
anti-clockwise (on an imaginary circle) to about 4:30,
then reaching OVER itself towards 10:30 ...
and complete the now uniquely defined fig.8

(which, in unnecessary further verbal instruction,
is to turn clockwise from 10:30 to 1:30 going UNDER
the SPart, and now reaching to 6:00 and passing
OVER the 4:30-10:30 (diagonal) part and UNDER
the 8:00-4:30 arc part).

2. Form the eye and bring the tail back on the RIGHT
side to reeve into the fig.8 base at about 5:00,
crossing OVER the arc part and UNDER the 1:30-6:00
part --and running largely parallel to the 4:30-10:30
part--, to then ...

3. Cross OVER & turn around (i.e. cross back UNDER)
the 12:00-7:30 part,

(and now exit between eyelegs, parallel to tail's leg)

4. ... back towards 5:30 passing UNDER 1:30-6:00 part
and over 7:30-4:30 arc (and now the tail's out, reeving done).


Set by pressing down on the turn around the SPart
(the 11:00-1:30 arc) and pulling on SPart, and by
tightening tail.


I've tried this in some tired old, ornery-stiff BW II low-elongation
("static") line, loaded via body weight & bouncing (175#+xx)
on a (crummy) 5:1 pulley.  In this line, the SPart and its
side eye leg aren't delivering too enough force to the
collar/turn around the SPart's entry to make that turn
too tight to loosen --after which there is no further
binding!

Quote
I like line drawings, but they take a long time to make.
Well, especially if one delays beginning!  I've some several
piles of ropes literally "tied up" with "new" knots awaiting
pen-on-paper recording, such that these various things to
try from the Net send me trying to find some uninvolved
cordage to play with --argh!&^$#$@  :-\

Quote
Black cord is a poor choice for seeing the edges where the cord crosses itself.
... as one is deprived of shadows for hints/help.
Sometimes it helps to use different colors in the material
--even though, yes, the illustrated knot is for a single
piece of material-- to show the end being reeved back
into the base.

Ooooo, that BLUE cord --THAT looks good!


--dl*
====
« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 01:43:49 AM by Dan_Lehman »

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Advice before posting a potentially new knot...
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2012, 09:19:58 PM »
Also, just curious,  how often do y'all have "new" knots submitted and or are actually confirmed and put in the magazine?
From time to time, Knotting Matters will present some knot
believed (or hoped) to be new, or wondered about.  Consider
that the IGKT itself was founded in consequence of a (mistaken)
belief of a new knot.

I have some thousand or two such knots,
so could do one daily for several years ...
--but things would get *old* way before I finished!

Confirmation of "new" is a dubious thing : we have of
course some well-known books to consult, but most
books copy prior ones and the variety is only so great;
beyond this, one can hope to find in various places in
non-knots-specific literature otherwise unrecorded
gems of knotting variety; and we can know that there
are things done that just aren't recorded.  Ultimately,
one will likely conclude that *new* is not all that it's
made out to be, as a quality.

One can see that you'd like to carry the attribute for
the knots you've presented; others might care less
for that bit, and wonder more about how the knot(s)
work --irrespective of *new*ness!  (And, frankly, if
you've managed on your own to find a great working
knotting solution, that's to your credit irrespective of
whether it was previously known (at worst, we can
decry your research vs. your inventive skills  ;) ).)



--dl*
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mercury

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Re: Advice before posting a potentially new knot...
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2015, 05:47:14 PM »
Is it possible to move a posting from one section to another? Your post suggests that I would be better posted in another section.