A new knot invented

[Dinguszook]

I am new to this forum and would like to introduce to other knot enthusiasts a new hitch that I created late one night.  I've looked in all of my books as well as online and believe that it is undocumented.  Is this the right place for me to provide the details on how to tie the knot and get confirmation that it is in fact unknown?

Chris
Boca Raton, Florida (USA)

[SS369]

Hello Dinguszook and welcome.

This indeed may be the correct place for you to present your discovery, a hitch. I know from personal experience that there are  many knots undocumented, at least in journals, etc., available to the general public by and large.

That said, we have here a collection of members who have been involve and investigating the knotting world for many years who can  be of assistance in this.

Please go ahead with your presentation and we'll see what comes of it.

SS

[Dinguszook]

It's probably best that I make a video of how to tie the knot.  I will do so ASAP.

[SS369]

Hi Dinguszook,

The video tying will be very nice. But, you could describe the tying or better yet give us and exploded and dressed photo of the knot. Hand drawn works as well.  ;-)
Whichever way you go about it please include the ends, SP and WE.

SS

[Dinguszook]

SS,

Here is a brief description of how to tie this hitch knot, but first let me explain what motivated me to design such a knot.  I am a low voltage tech; a kind of electrician.  Mostly I install and maintain telephone systems, computer networks, security cameras, et al.  When installing data cables, we often utilize pull strings so that we only have to establish a cable path once and then use the string to run additional cables (this is especially useful on long cable runs....if there is a string in place then we can just tie the cable on and pull the string at the other end to pull the cable in.)  A smart technician will also tie on another pull string along with the cable so that future cable pulls will not be problematic.  Ususally we tie the cable onto the string and then tie on the new string with the leftover slack from that knot, but sometimes (when we're rushing to get a job done) the new pull string gets fogotten until everything is taped over (we use electrical tape to secure the cable to the string and to streamline the connection so it does not get snagged on anything.)  Once the cable is taped onto the string it is not possible to get at that end anymore, and the other end may be a long distance away and not practical to get to.  If I've already taped up the knot then I need to tie the new string onto the existing string in front of the cable and ensure that it doesn't slide back and forth.

I created a knot which stemmed from the clove hitch and the rolling hitch.  Here is how it is tied:

Start by wrapping the new string around the old string twice and bring the WE around the top and down (in front of the old string).  Pass the WE behind the standing end and back up (in front of the old string).  Pass the WE through the two loops that were created and pull both ends of the new string until it straightens out and "inverts" the knot onto the old string.  Then just pull both ends of the old string to tighten the knot.

After creating this design, I "reverse engineered" the knot to see if it can be tied more easily.  Here is another (easier) way to tie the knot:

Create a loop in the old string and wrap the new string around it twice.  Then bring the WE behind the old string and through the loop.  Pull both ends of the new string until it straightens out and "inverts" the knot onto the old string.  Then just pull both ends of the old string to tighten the knot.

In the attached video, the new string is shown as the white paracord and the old string is shown as the black paracord.  The pictures show the first tying method at 3 stages: the path the new string takes around the old string, the "inverted knot" that is created when the new string is pulled, and the completed knot.

Follow these links to YouTube, where you will see what it looks like to tie the knot using both methods.  Until I find the appropriate name for it, I have named it the Sanges Hitch Knot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AMlMA9aws8&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSbmmrgm45s&feature=channel


Thank you for your time and interest, let me know what you make of all this.

Cheers!

Chris Sanges
Boca Raton, Florida

[Dinguszook]

Here are some more closeup pics of the completed knot.  NOTE: After "inverting" the knot and tightening it you must further tighten it by pulling on both the new and old strings -- this will create the daisy petal-like pattern, which is what led me to name it originally -- the Petunia Knot.

Chris Sanges

[Sweeney]

Have alook at this earlier post - it's not the same as yours but fulfils a similar purpose (you will need to scroll down to reply #13). http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3020.0

Barry

[Dan_Lehman]

Chris, inn short, this new knotting seems merely
a too-clever-by-half excess over simply tying
a bowline of new string to old, maybe one
with some extensions for added security.
(E.g., the water bowline or an extension of
that using a rolling h. vice clove h. base.)

... although your tact of making a hitch then
to capsize into the desired knot is good!

 

--dl*
====

[Dinguszook]

The knot must be as compact as possible (the loop created by tying a bowline can get snagged on something in the ceiling, for example the tip of a metal wire used to support false ceiling, the corner of a lighting panel, etc.). 

[Dan_Lehman]

The knot must be as compact as possible (the loop created by tying a bowline
can get snagged on something in the ceiling, for example the tip of a metal wire used
 \to support false ceiling, the corner of a lighting panel, etc.).

By "tying a bowline" I meant joining the 2nd
string to the first as though completing that knot,
though here one wouldn't actually have formed
an eye ("loop") --nothing more to snag than what
you've shown.


--dll*
====

[Dinguszook]

I did not correctly explain how to tie the knot so here are some pics that will make it clear.  The "easy" way to tie it is obviously the best way to present it.  I thought I would explain how I learned to tie the knot originally but in the end it is best just to learn it the right way so as "knot" to get confused

[Dinguszook]

In playing around with the structure of the knot I uncovered another variation of it.  Judging by how easy it is to tie and how effective it is I'm going to presume that it is a documented knot.  Evidentally the knot that I invented is this one's scared little brother (it apparently is more busy than it needs to be).  I wonder which of these knots (and the ones that others have recommended in this thread) would fair the best in a load test.  I don't have the equipment needed to carry out such an experiment. 

This new knot is tied by twisting the main rope twice, passing the new rope through the two loops that were created, then feeding the working end of the new rope through the outer loop of the main rope.  Hold both ends of the new rope and pull on the standing end of the main rope to tighten the knot.  Presto!  A rolling hitch that will not slide and super easy to tie 

 

[Sweeney]

This new knot is tied by twisting the main rope twice, passing the new rope through the two loops that were created.......

This is clear from your 3rd photo but the second photo shows the yellow cord passing through only one loop. The finished knot is similar to the "simple simon" bend by Harry Asher though the ends exit the bight on opposite sides rather than on the same side. See http://www.enm.bris.ac.uk/staff/rrc/knots/SSS.pdf

Barry

[Dinguszook]

The second picture should look like this (I took so many pics of the knots that I was making I posted the wrong one.)

[Dinguszook]

It appears that the simplified version of the above knot can be even more simplified.  Apparently twisting the main rope twice is unnecessary -- only one twist will do then just pass the new rope through the loop, under the main rope, then back through the loop.  The knot is self tightening (like the rest of these knots) and does not slide.  The wrong pic that I posted previously (picture 2) evidentally depicts this version.