Author Topic: Jam-Resistant Hitches that Don't "Need" a Slip, from smallest to BIGGEST  (Read 18608 times)

Dan_Lehman

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The snuggle h. should be replaced with a like
and 1-turn-simpler version of the groundline h.
...

The pedigree cow h. should be replaced for the
better (not object-size dependent) improved cow &
better half
--my improvement to the arborists'
so-named knot,  ...

--dl*
====

That sounds good, but I need a pic or at least one definitive name or ABOK#.
Otherwise, we'll just have to wait around until I can make a pic and think of a name.

For the former, the Ashley # is 1674.

The latter (which I gave a name) can be seen from
Ashley's #1683 (which just takes the tail around
the opposite way to Asher's [sic] "pedigree"),
but have the arrowed finish be down behind
the crossing part/collar and then out between
the ends (SPart & tail), crossing OVER itself.
In this finish, it's all rope-vs-rope locking, no
dependence upon the object!


--dl*
====

DerekSmith

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Has anybody noticed that the Girth Hitch is nothing more than a Bowline loop folded to a Cow Hitch



Expanding this concept to include every conceivable loop knot and the Girth Hitch explodes into a massive family of Cow hitched loop knots.

So should this be acknowledged as a knot in its own right or simply called what it is - a Bowline loop Cow Hitched to (in this case) a barrel?  Or perhaps given the generic name of 'A Cow Hitched Lop Knot' (AKA Girth Hitch)

Derek

NB to better this for the title 'Jam-Resistant' I would offer the 'Carrick Loop Knot Cow Hitch' .

PS  Shouldn't his more correctly be called a Cow Hitch / Larks Foot etc etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cow_hitch

knot4u

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Has anybody noticed that the Girth Hitch is nothing more than a Bowline loop folded to a Cow Hitch

Expanding this concept to include every conceivable loop knot and the Girth Hitch explodes into a massive family of Cow hitched loop knots.

So should this be acknowledged as a knot in its own right or simply called what it is - a Bowline loop Cow Hitched to (in this case) a barrel?  Or perhaps given the generic name of 'A Cow Hitched Lop Knot' (AKA Girth Hitch)

Derek

NB to better this for the title 'Jam-Resistant' I would offer the 'Carrick Loop Knot Cow Hitch' .

PS  Shouldn't his more correctly be called a Cow Hitch / Larks Foot etc etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cow_hitch

In the comment under the diagram, I said it's a Cow Hitch with the working end attached to the standing end. (That's what a Girth Hitch is.) In this particular case the working end is attached to the standing by using a Bowline. In real life, a Cow Hitch is practically always in the form of a Girth. So, I didn't even include a Cow, by itself, in the list. Plus, a Cow is not sufficiently secure for this list.

Notice I'm trying to keep each comment in the list to a one-liner. So, if you can figure out a one-liner that's better than the one I posted in the list, please provide it. Please keep that to a single one-liner, not multiple one-liner alternatives, thanks.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 06:42:10 PM by knot4u »

DerekSmith

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snip...
 Plus, a Cow is not sufficiently secure for this list.


"When tied using the end of a rope, such as when securing an animal's lead to a vertical post or stake, this knot was said to be more resistant to loosening than the clove hitch as the animal wanders around the post - Ashley p44" ? ?

What is the lists security criterion?

Derek
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 07:07:00 PM by DerekSmith »

knot4u

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snip...
 Plus, a Cow is not sufficiently secure for this list.


"When tied using the end of a rope, such as when securing an animal's lead to a vertical post or stake, this knot was said to be more resistant to loosening than the clove hitch as the animal wanders around the post - Ashley p44" ? ?

Derek

Does your testing agree with that comment from Ashley? That's not a rhetorical question.

With respect to Ashley, in my testing in a variety of ropes and applications, a Cow slips immediately with just a moderate load. The Girth (or Pedigree Cow or other) is what I will use if I want the hitch to hold.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 07:08:42 PM by knot4u »

knot4u

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What is the lists security criterion?

Well, maybe you can help me think of a succinct definition. I intentionally left that vague.

Here's a possible definition: The hitch should be able to hold for a variety of rope (e.g., poly braid, paracord, shoe laces, etc.) on a pipe of 2" diameter. But again, I'm asking for a succinct definition, not merely a critique that I have to figure out on my own.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 07:28:54 PM by knot4u »

DerekSmith

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Sorry K4u,

That was critical of me and this is a very constructive thread.  I negatively responded to the dismissive statement that 'a Cow is not sufficiently secure for this list', and that was wrong of me.

The Cow hitch requires a fairly high CF cord in order to function and just about all modern plastic braids are just too slick for it to even remotely hold.

The problem with making a definition (especially the one you are considering), is that in this instance you will instantly eliminate a whole range of cordages and applications.  Your given example of a Girth hitch for example has to be replaced, because it is not around the defined 1" pipe unless the pipe is just to define security.

Manila cordage is still widely used and it has a massive CF even just against itself.  Consequently, the Cow hitch is quite adequate in any number of applications, even where the anchor point is slick.

So although I am not offering a 'succinct definition', perhaps I could offer up the insight that a knot be included, but if it has functionality limitations, then we describe those.  Much as most of our present knots it seems would probably simply pull through in the new utra slick HMPE cordages of increasing availability, so we could include the Cow hitch with the comment that it needs high CF cordage in order not to simply slide through at the slightest load.

Once again, thank you for reminding me not to be an arse...

Derek