Author Topic: Best and quickest hitch for a smooth pole?  (Read 30253 times)

Mike

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Best and quickest hitch for a smooth pole?
« on: February 18, 2012, 04:13:55 AM »
What would be your choice for a quick and secure way to hitch on to a smooth pole or pipe?   I am looking for a hitch for pulling 20' sticks of copper pipe or galvanized pipe up on roofs.   Right now I am considering using a short loop of small diameter rope or maybe even webbing, and just make a Klemheist and hook my haul rope into it.

SS369

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Re: Best and quickest hitch for a smooth pole?
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2012, 04:32:26 AM »
Hi Mike,

I think you've hit on the right idea. Most of the easy prusik hitches will work. It is whatever you can tie the quickest since it is work you're going to be doing. Cinch it up tight!

I would choose some soft-ish, adequate small cord for this. 3/16 -1/4 inch

Just make sure the ground-man is up to speed (assuming you're on the roof).
And not underneath!

SS

knot4u

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Re: Best and quickest hitch for a smooth pole?
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2012, 05:49:20 AM »
I'd probably go with a Well Pipe or a Klemheist. They're both simple, effective, and difficult to tie wrongly.

http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1889.msg12943#msg12943
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 05:51:16 AM by knot4u »

roo

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Re: Best and quickest hitch for a smooth pole?
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2012, 06:08:51 AM »
What would be your choice for a quick and secure way to hitch on to a smooth pole or pipe?   I am looking for a hitch for pulling 20' sticks of copper pipe or galvanized pipe up on roofs.   Right now I am considering using a short loop of small diameter rope or maybe even webbing, and just make a Klemheist and hook my haul rope into it.
I don't think this is the right application for a lengthwise pull hitch, if that is what you are talking about.  Lengthwise pull hitches should only be used on objects where slippage will not be catastrophic.  That is not the case here.   If something isn't applied right, you could drop a pipe and have it crash through a window or worse.  You need something more foolproof.

I assume your buildings are fairly tall if you can't merely hand off 20 foot pipe lengths. 

A quick, safe method would be to insert rods into the ends of the pipe.  They don't have to be tight fitting.  At the center of each rod, drill a hole to help to attach the rope ends.  See the attached image.  The rods are shown in blue. 

After you have it made, there are no knots for the help to mess up.  Just insert the rods, hoist, and remove the rods.  You could even hoist a bundle of pipe at once, if the bundle is secure enough.  A stepped rod or some hose for protecting the rope from the pipe edges would be a nice addition.

« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 11:58:54 PM by roo »
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xarax

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Re: Best and quickest hitch for a smooth pole?
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2012, 06:40:01 AM »
The best hitch for a smooth pole is the one shown at :
http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=2075.msg16893#msg16893
Of course, it is not the quickest ! What you can use is an auxiliary piece of string, a little longer than the pipes, that can be hooked into the two oposite openings, and be raised by its middle - so the two hooks will not run the danger of slipping off.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 06:42:56 AM by xarax »
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[Inkanyezi] gone

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Re: Best and quickest hitch for a smooth pole?
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2012, 09:24:10 AM »
Roo's suggestion may be altered, if the pipes would bend if hoisted horizontally supported by the ends. Then you may instead use one such rod, and half-hitch the rope to the other end of the pipe to hoist it vertically. Instead of half-hitching, you could have a butterfly loop at the right distance, to push the pipe end through before inserting the rod. That might be a bit more convenient, maybe quicker and would need less skill.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 09:25:21 AM by Inkanyezi »
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Sweeney

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Re: Best and quickest hitch for a smooth pole?
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2012, 09:51:02 AM »
You don't say what diameter the pipe is - if it's 3/4 inch or more then I would use a 20ft+ piece of cord with a loop at each end (only one end if the same cord is used for hauling). Use a small but heavy weight to drop the cord end with a loop through the pipe and slip a toggle through the bottom loop having attached the top loop to your haul rope (unless it is your haul rope). Quick and easy and relatively safe, the weight of the pipe will keep the toggle in place.

Barry

xarax

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Re: Best and quickest hitch for a smooth pole?
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2012, 02:04:46 PM »
if the pipes would bend if hoisted horizontally supported by the ends.

   Then you should tie two loose mid-line loops on your auxiliary rope with the two hooks on its ends, so the pipe would not be raised and supported by its middle, but the two middles of its two middles.

P.S. The solution of (1) that will be posted in the first picture of on Reply#12  :), but with hooks at the ends of the rope, is exactly what I describe here.

1)  http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3794.0;attach=6736;image
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 05:16:24 PM by xarax »
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TMCD

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Re: Best and quickest hitch for a smooth pole?
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2012, 04:23:28 PM »
Being in the construction trades myself, I would go with either the Pipe Hitch or the Icicle Hitch. Once masterd, both are relatively simple and quick to tie. The options presented to lift the pipes parallel with the ground seem overkill and certainly would kill the clock when you need to get a move on.

The inventor of the Icicle Hitch famously tied himself to a tapered fid and demonstrated it's holding power when it didn't drop him but held him perfectly in place!!

Mike

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Re: Best and quickest hitch for a smooth pole?
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2012, 04:50:19 PM »
Horizontal pull is out of the question as is putting anything inside the pipe.  The copper pipe I use is dehydrated and sealed on both ends until ready to be installed.  Anything inside could possibly contaminate the intended use.

Last night I made a fixed loop of paracord and tied a Klemheist around a sample piece.    It did seem to hold very well.  I pulled on it with all of my strength and it didn't slip any.

xarax

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Re: Best and quickest hitch for a smooth pole?
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2012, 04:57:37 PM »
either the Pipe Hitch or the Icicle Hitch.

The gripping hitch around poles, presented at:
http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=2075.msg16893#msg16893
is superior, by far, to the Pipe hitch, the Icicle hitch or the Kleimheist hitch (to name but a few...)
I have tested all the known hitches-around-poles, and then some, and I know. Of course, I guess that there will be another half century or so, before we. the concervative knot tyers, will re-discover this fact...but this is how fast things move in our forgotten field.   
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 04:58:22 PM by xarax »
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roo

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Re: Best and quickest hitch for a smooth pole?
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2012, 05:09:26 PM »
Horizontal pull is out of the question as is putting anything inside the pipe.  The copper pipe I use is dehydrated and sealed on both ends until ready to be installed.  Anything inside could possibly contaminate the intended use.
You can use capped sleeves (made from larger pipe) in place of the rods.  I would use a pre-made pipe sling.  Simple insertion and no friction dependant hitches to tie at the time of hoisting will be safer and much, much faster.  You don't have to worry if something slick gets smeared or splattered on the pipe or your rope, either.

Attached are two more options.  You can size your sling as needed to carry multiple pipes at once, if desired.

For midline loops shown:  http://notableknotindex.webs.com/butterflyloop.html
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 11:52:16 PM by roo »
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xarax

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Re: Best and quickest hitch for a smooth pole?
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2012, 05:11:28 PM »
it's not a quick tie.

   No, not at all. I doubt that there will be ANY gripping hitch around a smooth pole that would be "a quick tie". They should be based on tying multiple coils, and then taking the slack out of those multiple coils... so any secure, safe gripping hitch around coils would take some time to set, dress and tighten.  The Klemheist hitch, suggested by the author of this thread, is not a quick tie either.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 07:09:08 AM by xarax »
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SS369

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Re: Best and quickest hitch for a smooth pole?
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2012, 05:12:13 PM »
Hi Mike,

pulling on it with all your might means that it will hold - if the normal load is going to provide that much loading. I would, to make sure first, hitch it looser and and tug simulating what you might expect the pipe to "see" as it is being hauled to the roof.

I am personally in favor of the 3 coil prusik and would probably opt for two small slings of suitable cord where the tyer has one ready on the next pipe while the other is being hauled up. Then you could use a larger haul line if you care to.

Or if the haul line is the cord to use only, tie a loop knot of your choice in its end, then tie the prusik around-the-thumbs method, install on the pipe and lift away.

I've used this for hauling gas (black) pipe to a third floor to be cut and installed. It was a workout for sure! Works for lumber too.

SS

Mike

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Re: Best and quickest hitch for a smooth pole?
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2012, 05:34:04 PM »
Hi Mike,

pulling on it with all your might means that it will hold - if the normal load is going to provide that much loading. I would, to make sure first, hitch it looser and and tug simulating what you might expect the pipe to "see" as it is being hauled to the roof.

I am personally in favor of the 3 coil prusik and would probably opt for two small slings of suitable cord where the tyer has one ready on the next pipe while the other is being hauled up. Then you could use a larger haul line if you care to.

Or if the haul line is the cord to use only, tie a loop knot of your choice in its end, then tie the prusik around-the-thumbs method, install on the pipe and lift away.

I've used this for hauling gas (black) pipe to a third floor to be cut and installed. It was a workout for sure! Works for lumber too.

SS

I thought about the 3 wrap Prisik, but I have not tried it yet.  I may give it a shot and see how it compares to the klenheist