Author Topic: A noose-like hitch that can be untied after hard strain  (Read 37257 times)

roo

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Re: A noose-like hitch that can be untied after hard strain
« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2012, 11:23:45 PM »
r. While a Slipped Buntline is not big, a Gnat is a little smaller and does not require a slip. Actually, the Gnat seems to be actively opposed to the idea of a slip.
Yeah, sometimes users may not even want a slipped end around that could get accidentally tripped, so that consideration helped drive the search.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 01:19:26 AM by roo »
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Hrungnir

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Re: A noose-like hitch that can be untied after hard strain
« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2012, 12:14:30 AM »
Just a little note:

If you ringload the Gnat Hitch (which you might do with a noose), it turns into a fixed loop. The fixed loop reminds of the Eskimo Bowline, but the working end and standing part are switched.

In my brief testing, the knot holds well and doesn't slip. It doesn't compete with knots such as Carrick Bend, Timber Hitch and Bowline when it comes to ease of untying, but it seems to untie much easier than Two Half Hitches and the Alpine Butterfly Loop.

roo

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Re: A noose-like hitch that can be untied after hard strain
« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2012, 12:21:04 AM »
Just a little note:

If you ringload the Gnat Hitch (which you might do with a noose), it turns into a fixed loop. The fixed loop reminds of the Eskimo Bowline, but the working end and standing part are switched.
I tried to simulate this, but it seems to just allow the "noose" to open if the standing part is not loaded and something tries to expand the noose.

Did you set the knot form first? 

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xarax

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Re: A noose-like hitch that can be untied after hard strain
« Reply #33 on: February 14, 2012, 12:28:50 AM »
If you ringload the Gnat Hitch

I do not think that you should describe what you did as "ring loading".
Anyway, this "Hrungnir loading", turns the elementary overhand hitch of Reply#2 into a Sheet bend.
This is not a knot.

roo

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Re: A noose-like hitch that can be untied after hard strain
« Reply #34 on: February 14, 2012, 02:47:18 AM »
The shown hitch can be jammed a bit...
I'm becoming a little disappointed in the hitch's jamming on smaller diameter objects after hard strain as I'm getting more into wet testing. 

It's too bad, because I'm pleased with the simplicity and security of the hitch.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 02:56:07 AM by roo »
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Hrungnir

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Re: A noose-like hitch that can be untied after hard strain
« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2012, 03:22:15 AM »
I thought ringloading was pulling the legs of the loop (spread the loop).

I've made a diagram of what I did. The Gnat Hitch to the left and the resulting knot after pulling the legs of the loop (spreading it) to the right.

I tightened the knot before pulling the legs.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 03:23:13 AM by Hrungnir »

Mike

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Re: A noose-like hitch that can be untied after hard strain
« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2012, 03:52:39 AM »
Try this one out.  I was playing with the Blimp Knot and tried using it for a noose.  It seems to meet your requirements for non jamming and easy to untie.





Pull the part with the blue dot back out to form the loop.

roo

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Re: A noose-like hitch that can be untied after hard strain
« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2012, 04:14:40 AM »
Try this one out.  I was playing with the Blimp Knot and tried using it for a noose.  It seems to meet your requirements for non jamming and easy to untie.





Pull the part with the blue dot back out to form the loop.
Well I'll be...  That's the Gnat Hitch. 
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Mike

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Re: A noose-like hitch that can be untied after hard strain
« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2012, 04:59:37 AM »
Well I'll be darn, your right......lol  I didn't even notice that.  After reading your reply I tied the Gnat hitch and was able to get it to turn into a Blimp Knot after messin with it for a minute.

xarax

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Re: A noose-like hitch that can be untied after hard strain
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2012, 11:25:27 AM »
..the resulting knot after pulling the legs of the loop (spreading it) to the right.
I tightened the knot before pulling the legs.

This is the "Hrungnir operation" I was taliking about at Reply#34... :)
See, at the attached pictures, how the same operation transforms the elementary Overhand knot hitch shown at Reply#3, into the Sheet bend.
( Am I allowed to describe this knot as a Sheet bend, when I denied this description for the bowline components, as Derek Smith proposed ? I think I am, because here the third limb of the knot that is loaded, is the second of the link which has not crossed legs ( the "white" link), so the loading of the knot ( as well as its form) resembles the loading of the Sheet bend, indeed.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 11:26:13 AM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

xarax

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Re: A noose-like hitch that can be untied after hard strain
« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2012, 12:38:19 PM »
   The one single overhand knot is not as convoluted a knot as it should, to serve as a "neck" for a secure noose-hitch. So, it is tempting to try two overhand knots instead ( "When one is not enough, try two", said one of the discoverers of the double DNA helix ... :) ). The Blimp knot is nothing but such a two-interlinked-overhand-knots compound knot.
   See the attached pictures for another noose-hitch based upon a two-interlinked-overhand-knots neck. Shown are a "correct" and a wrong version . The wrong one, suffers from the danger the tail will be untucked and untied, if the upper overhand knot is not tightened adequately - and will not  remain in this state ever since. That is the reason it might serve as a knot for a midlne bend, but not as a neck around the tensioned standing part of a noose-hitch.
   However, I think that the purpose of this thread was a noose-hitch which will be tightened when pressed hard on the surface of the wrapped object, by the compression forces the surface of the object imposes on a nub of as simple as possible a knot...It seems that such a knot should drive the tail towards the surface of the object, so the interaction of the tail with the surface will secure it further.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 12:41:42 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

knot4u

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Re: A noose-like hitch that can be untied after hard strain
« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2012, 10:25:25 PM »
The shown hitch can be jammed a bit...
I'm becoming a little disappointed in the hitch's jamming on smaller diameter objects after hard strain as I'm getting more into wet testing. 

It's too bad, because I was pleased with the simplicity and security of the hitch.

After further testing on small diameter objects, I have not gotten a jam. Can you describe this jam more? Is it capsized and then jammed?

roo

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Re: A noose-like hitch that can be untied after hard strain
« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2012, 10:51:50 PM »
After further testing on small diameter objects, I have not gotten a jam. Can you describe this jam more? Is it capsized and then jammed?
There is no capsizing, it's just that there's more difficulty in prying and wiggling apart the underlying half hitch than I would like.  I'm using 3/16" nylon braid (sometimes wet) on a small carabiner under very high strain.  I'm glad that it's not causing you problems.  Hopefully most users' conditions will not be as harsh as what I'm doing, but I'm including a note of the issue on the Gnat Hitch page.
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knot4u

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Re: A noose-like hitch that can be untied after hard strain
« Reply #43 on: February 14, 2012, 11:38:22 PM »
After further testing on small diameter objects, I have not gotten a jam. Can you describe this jam more? Is it capsized and then jammed?
There is no capsizing, it's just that there's more difficulty in prying and wiggling apart the underlying half hitch than I would like.  I'm using 3/16" nylon braid (sometimes wet) on a small carabiner under very high strain.  I'm glad that it's not causing you problems.  Hopefully most users' conditions will not be as harsh as what I'm doing, but I'm including a note of the issue on the Gnat Hitch page.

Yeah, I don't know if jamming is the right word here. It may require an extra step to loosen a strand here and there, but it's not close to being rock solid like a regular Overhand tied in the middle of a rope.

roo

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Re: A noose-like hitch that can be untied after hard strain
« Reply #44 on: February 14, 2012, 11:48:07 PM »
Yeah, I don't know if jamming is the right word here. It may require an extra step to loosen a strand here and there, but it's not close to being rock solid like a regular Overhand tied in the middle of a rope.
Well, in some cases it's taking me over a minute to get things free by hand.   
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