Author Topic: New Knots - Please take a look  (Read 14113 times)

alanleeknots

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Re: New Knots - Please take a look
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2011, 02:12:15 PM »
adjustable loop

alanleeknots

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Re: New Knots - Please take a look
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2011, 02:17:48 PM »
adjustable loop
« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 08:16:38 PM by eric22 »

xarax

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Re: New Knots - Please take a look
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2011, 06:13:03 PM »
     I was not convinced about the "female loop" as a fixed loop, and I am still not convinced about it now, I am afraid, as an adjustable loop. To my view, It was too weak then, and has not became stronger now...The first loop can not squeeze the standing part hard enough...and the standing part itself is easily tensioned into a straight line, and then it can slip easily through the neck of the loop - so this loop is transformed into more a noose, than an adjustable loop. On the second loop, you have to keep the free end under constant tension, otherwise it runs the danger to capsize into the third fixed loop, the - weak- "female" bowline posted previously.
   I understand the convenience to have "3 in 1", 3  functions achieved by the same structure...but this "female" structure does everything in a not very satisfactory way. I guess that, if you continue your search for such a "3 in 1" loop, you will most probably find a similar structure, that would be even better than this.
   Having said that, I think that the two coils version is a much-much  better knot ! ( I have also tried it with a three coils neck - and it was also very good).  I have found that it is a quite secure adjustable loop :  the standing end resists the shear forces induced on it by the two bights it goes through very effectively, and the added friction by its sqeeze on  the coiled outer surface of the neck makes the whole structure a secure adjustable loop. To my mind, the idea of the standing end of a noose sliding alongside the outer  surface of the coiled neck tube ( and not going through  the tube, as usual ), is quite revolutionary ! I couldn't have believed that it would be secured there as well as it does, because we are accustomed to the well known friction hitch mechanism...where the standing end goes through  the tube, and it is secured there by the nipping action and the friction forces of the shrinking coil. Here, we have another mechanism, working more with shear forces ..., but I might be a little biased on this "shear forces" thing lately - and it is natural to the hammer to see every-thing as just another nail :) .
« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 06:18:10 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

xarax

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Re: New Knots - Please take a look
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2011, 10:30:14 PM »
   I have tried the slipped adjustable loop(s) of Reply#14, and they work very well under load ( although I have not tested them with really heavy loads). The simple nipping loop lock is also most effective, as expected. I believe this neat quick-release adjustable loop can be used in a great number of practical applications. I have put it in my knot toolbox already :) Thank you, Eric.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 10:39:54 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

alanleeknots

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Re: New Knots - Please take a look
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2011, 12:24:33 PM »
Hi All, Holiday season i have some time off, i make some knots just to share with, i have few more knots i belive is  better then this two here, i am looking for those hight secure bowline, any body know where i can find it, i like to check before i post it.
Thanks   alan lee

alanleeknots

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Re: New Knots - Please take a look
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2011, 12:34:27 PM »
Hi All, just to share with.

roo

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Re: New Knots - Please take a look
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2011, 06:10:20 PM »
Hi All, just to share with.
Eric,

By posting new knots at the end of an established thread, it may be obscuring them from a great number of people who think they've seen this thread's topic knots.

I would suggest that for each knot, you present it in a new thread in which you can talk about its properties, methods of tying, etc.

If you think it's a practical knot, you could put it in the Practical Knotting forum category.  If you're not sure it's practical, you could either put it in this forum category or whatever category seems appropriate.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 06:36:08 PM by roo »
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roo

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Re: New Knots - Please take a look
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2011, 06:23:03 PM »
Hi everyone。
Start from this chinese good luck knot, I discover all these knots,i use quick realease adjustable loop a lot as a tag line for lifting rebar and other things.and it really good when we lifting big bean or pipe the rigger up top do'nt have to deal with the tag line, the ground man can realease it.

I am not sure we have these kinds of knots already in the book or not.
Under higher strain, this knot form can capsize to keep the release mechanism from working properly.

For reference, I'd have you look at some hitches with a similar function but with better stability:
http://notableknotindex.webs.com/slippedbuntline.html
http://notableknotindex.webs.com/haltersiberian.html

There are some "related pages" links in there that may also be of interest to you.
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roo

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Re: New Knots - Please take a look
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2011, 06:34:59 PM »
Hi All, Holiday season i have some time off, i make some knots just to share with, i have few more knots i belive is  better then this two here, i am looking for those hight secure bowline, any body know where i can find it, i like to check before i post it.
Thanks   alan lee
Unless you can present an easy method of tying, I think this knot is getting too complex for practical use.

If you are looking for some higher security fixed end loops, I can make some suggestions:
http://notableknotindex.webs.com/zeppelinloop.html
http://notableknotindex.webs.com/waterbowline.html
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xarax

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Re: New Knots - Please take a look
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2011, 08:36:04 PM »
I am looking for those [very] secure bowlines...

   Eric, these are NOT bowlines, by any means. The essential characteristic of any bowline-like loop- and its biggest advantage - is that the nipping structure tied on the standing part is a TIB structure, that is, it can be untied completely after the tall is pulled out of it. ( See the relevant looong discussion about bowlines ).
   As fixed loops, those knots are interesting, although a little more complex than they should be... Personally, I prefer the ( not-TIB,, not-bowline s ) simpler nipping structure of Reply#19, than than that of Reply#18.
   The problem I see with those loops is this : The nipping structure is very complex ( I would argue, too complex ), yet the collar  is very simple ( perhaps too simple, for a quite secure loop ). I think that the loops are not balanced : I would prefer a loop where the two parts - the nipping structure and the path of the tail through it - are convoluted at about the same degree.

« Last Edit: December 31, 2011, 02:27:57 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

alanleeknots

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Re: New Knots - Please take a look
« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2011, 02:01:35 AM »
Hi Roo, tarax,
My son Eric is busy and was out of town.i worte the reply #13 #14 myself, my english and computer skill is limited bear with me, my be i am confusing you guys, like i said on reply#13 i only have one knot book, that all i know from this book. i post the 3 in 1 knot, this knot is so unique, just to share with other. Don't mean to ask you guys to pay any attantion on that female loop, i already mention the very begining she is no a good knot. lucky me i discover the female loop then i can created the  M-1, M-2  and F-1, F-2. and also give the drive to look more deeper in to the rope matter and create more knots.
Beside these two fixed loops i just post, i have few more loops i just finished, on the reply # 13 i am asking people to show me those very hight secure loops or bowlines, so that i can check on it make sure my new loops are no one of those, then i post it,
Xarax, on reply #2 you mention (we have dozens of bowlines that offer much more security) If you still have these bowlines can you please pass it to me. Thanks you very much for the help,comment and  participation.
Roo, Thanks you for your comment, reference and suggestions.
Thanks again      Alan Lee.

xarax

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Re: New Knots - Please take a look
« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2011, 03:06:23 AM »
 The most comprehensive article I know, is by Mark Gommers, at ;

http://www.paci.com.au/downloads_public/knots/02_Bowlines.pdf

 Also, you may use the "search" option (bowline), and find many interesting variations and discussions of/about "secure",  bowline-like loops in this Forum.

This is not a knot.