Author Topic: invented a new knot  (Read 14076 times)

knot4u

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Re: invented a new knot
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2012, 09:44:59 PM »
If that is the case, I see no point, ( and, indeed, I see no right ) for a knot-discoverer to have any proprietary claims on a knot that he might have discovered first, but was already there nevertheless.

Yes, there are no proprietary claims to be had on mere use of a knot.

One could have legitimate claims under copyright laws for the use of a knot photograph or similar work. I see this mattering only if you're making a book, website, software package, or something else that can generate money. Take ABOK for example.

In contrast, the isolated pics we post on this site are highly unlikely to bring in money for anybody. Nevertheless, it doesn't hurt anybody to put a watermark, signature, name, or whatever on a posted pic.

Actually, Xarax, I would prefer if you and everybody else labeled/named each "new" knot posted, preferably directly on the photo or diagram.  That way, someone else can easily reference the knot on this site or even other sites.  You can take or leave my recommendation, no need to argue about it, just a personal preference.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2012, 10:02:25 PM by knot4u »

xarax

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Re: invented a new knot
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2012, 09:06:49 PM »
I would prefer if you and everybody else labeled/named each "new" knot posted, preferably directly on the photo or diagram.  That way, someone else can easily reference the knot on this site or even other sites.

   I have followed your advice as much as I could. However, there are some problems ;
   1. If the knot has a very peculiar shape, it is easy to attach a relevant name on it . For example, see the "Oval bend" (1). But what happens if it has not ? The knot world is fed up with knots known under silly, or even misleading names...we do not need some more !
   2. One always hopes that somebody else will figure out a more appropriate name for this knot...because the person who sees a thing for the first time, is more able to focus straightly upon the obvious central theme, and not get lost into minor details.
   3. There is always the possibility another person has seen something similar, and then it might be better to name the "new" knot  by some reference to the "old" one - or even as a variation of this "old" one.
   4. A name that sounds nice and descriptive enough to somebody, might be proven to be a bad choice, because to most other people will sound like something else, etc.
   5  If you sense that this knot will be one of a series of similar knots that you have not yet investigated, you wait to see the complete set, and then to decide how to name each one of them.
   6. If you really believe that what matters is the structure of the knot, and knot its name, you tend to leave the name, on purpose, somehow vague, or ill defined, and let the knot tyers community and history to fill the gap.   

   Last, but not least. when you see your "new "knots" receive zero or even negative interest from the other knot tyers - as I do  :), - the last thing you bother is to have your ignored or ridiculed knot named !

1. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3741
« Last Edit: January 27, 2012, 09:13:11 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

roo

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Re: invented a new knot
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2012, 10:48:39 PM »
   Last, but not least. when you see your "new "knots" receive zero or even negative interest from the other knot tyers - as I do  :), - the last thing you bother is to have your ignored or ridiculed knot named !
This is a very good point.  And any knot tyer tempted to name a knot after themselves should be very careful, as pride does often come before a fall.  It's amazing how often knots have hidden flaws and vulnerabilities that sometimes don't become evident for quite some time.
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knot4u

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Re: invented a new knot
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2012, 11:42:00 PM »
I don't think people really care all that much about bad knots. More specifically, undesirable knots are more so ignored, than they are ridiculed.  What's the opposite of love?  Is it hate? No, the opposite of love is apathy. Hate implies caring.

Anyway, if I took numerous knot pics, like Xarax does, I would apply an organization scheme to my pics and build a library of knots. Then, I could discuss my knots in a more organized manner.  As years went by, I would have a wealth of information organized efficiently.  Who knows? I might want to develop a book, website, software package, or whatever. I'd have the info quickly at my finger tips.

Examples of knot identifiers that could be stamped directly on a pic:
K4U Binder #23
K4U Hitch #456
etc.

Note, "knot4u" is not my real name, LOL. I could easily get a username if I no longer wanted the association!

xarax

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Re: invented a new knot
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2012, 12:21:38 AM »
if I took numerous knot pics... I would apply an organization scheme to my pics and build a library of knots. Then, I could discuss my knots in a more organized manner.  As years went by, I would have a wealth of information organized efficiently.  Who knows? I might want to develop a book, website, software package, or whatever. I'd have the info quickly at my finger tips.

I agree 100% in your plan...but you have to understand knots first, and then only to proceed to a more scientific scheme like the one you describe. I myself, I am only a novice, a beginner in this field, I have spent only a few weeks, in total, studying and tying knots, and I have not yet made one descent experiment - because I do not have (yet) the appropriate instruments/facilities. So, I consider myself but a student, and I try to develop a sense, an understanding of knots first, and leave the more systematic examination and presentation for a later time.
  To tell you the truth, I have an even more ambitious plan than the one you describe !  :) I want to settle to a very limited number of knots, the proven best, a few only of all the different kinds, that I will have studied in depth, and hace measured all their characteristics. Then, I would like to draw virtual reality, 3D interactive videos of those knots, that will show them as they are tied and tightened, from whatever angle the viewer wishes. Is it a grand enough plan ?  :)
This is not a knot.

xarax

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Re: invented a new knot
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2012, 12:39:57 AM »
  Another thing that could be very interesting, and will reveal many hidden characteristics of the knots, is a "map" , a graph of knots - ( like the one Dan Lehman described somewhere, If I remember well ). In this map/graph, each and every knot will be connected to other similar knots, through different types of "arrows", each showing some similarity according to some concrete, measured quantity.
  If we have such a map, and put all the knots we know into this, then we could use a rational methodology of labeling/enumerating knots - like the one chemists have for the chemical elements or substances. When a knot tyer would read the label/number of a knot, he would be able to tie this knot, and place it in the correct place inside the map of knots.
   People might believe that this is a grandiose, impossible plan. They are mistaken ! The simple knots are, in their number, vastly fewer than the variations of chess, for example - and a chess player can identify a variation quite easily, and can repeat all the moves needed to reach a certain position, starting from the first move.
 
This is not a knot.