Author Topic: What do you call the study of knots  (Read 21954 times)

magboggs

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What do you call the study of knots
« on: September 07, 2011, 07:24:50 AM »
This is a query that came into me today from Walter Vaux, he would like to know if there is an official name for the study of knotting. I have told him that if there is one then someone on this forum will know what it is, so don't let me down please.

Walter asks:  For years, I have been seeking a work that means ?The scholarly study of knots?.  The word Vexillology is the scholarly study of flags.  Is there a comparable word for the study of knots?

Margaret
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DerekSmith

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Re: What do you call the study of knots
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2011, 08:28:37 AM »
This is a query that came into me today from Walter Vaux, he would like to know if there is an official name for the study of knotting. I have told him that if there is one then someone on this forum will know what it is, so don't let me down please.

Walter asks:  For years, I have been seeking a work that means ?The scholarly study of knots?.  The word Vexillology is the scholarly study of flags.  Is there a comparable word for the study of knots?

Margaret
Secretary - IGKT

Hi Margaret,

We have had a long topic here recently discussing this very issue, along with proposing a lexicon for modern use.

The term we eventually settled on was Nodeology and a Wiki has been created to work on the lexicon

Derek

colinbyfleet

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Re: What do you call the study of knots
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2011, 11:18:17 PM »
Did you consider kompology which makes use of the two Greek roots, kompos, a knot, and the usual -ology, word or study?

squarerigger

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Re: What do you call the study of knots
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2011, 07:39:13 PM »
Hmmm - the word for "knot" in Greek is also represented by the Greek word pronounced thileia according to one on-line dictionary and would produce the word thileiology - do we have any Greek speakers on the forum?

SR

xarax

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Re: What do you call the study of knots
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2011, 11:41:57 PM »
   "Knot", in ancient/classic Greek, is "desmos" (δεσμος), and in medieval/modern Greek "komvos/kompos" (κομβος/κομπος). "Bound", "tied", is "desmion / desmotis", so the bound on a rockTitan hero Prometheus - who was punished by the god Zeus for giving fire to mankind - is "Prometheus desmotis" (the title of a classic ancient Greek tragedy) (1). 
   The word "thileia / thilia" (θηλεια /θηλια), is a synonym of the ancient/classic Greek word  "brokhos / bronhos / bronhus (lat.)" (βρογχος), that means "noose". ( from "bronhos" comes "bronhitis") . Curiously perhaps (?), the word "thileia"=noose, comes from the word "thilys / thilykon"= female  :) .             
   (The earliest text / description of practical nooses, by Heraklas (2) from the first century A.D., uses the word "brokhos / bronhos / bronhus (lat.)" collectively for nooses, hitches and some bends.  See the attached picture for an an early seal-impression on clay of a knot, from 2200 B.C., at Lerna (3).)

1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prometheus_Bound
2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraklas
"Heraklas on Knots: Sixteen Surgical Nooses and Knots from the First Century A.D.", World Journal of Surgery 32 (4): 648-655
3) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lerna
« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 06:51:39 AM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

Sweeney

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Re: What do you call the study of knots
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2011, 10:17:33 AM »
A search through various online disctionaries shows that "kompology" means braggadocio, empty boasting (though how that came about is not clear) - it has nothing to do with knotting even though that is the root.

Barry

xarax

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Re: What do you call the study of knots
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2011, 08:50:25 PM »
"kompology" means braggadocio, empty boasting (though how that came about is not clear) - it has nothing to do with knotting even though that is the root.

   No.You confuse two different  words. Search for a better dictionary :)
   Those two words do not have the same root, and we know how one of them came to mean what you describe by "kompology".
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Greek%E2%80%93English_Lexicon#Liddell_and_Scott.27s_lexicon
   http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/ 

1. Kompos, in ancient /classic Greek, meaning knock, noise, sound. ( for example, k. of teeth )
    ( 8th century B.C., Homer, Iliad, Λ 417, M 149, M 151 )
     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homer
     Metaphorically, also in ancient/classic Greek, kompos, kompasmos, meaning making-noise-about-oneself, boast, bragger, bluster, swagger.
     Pindar, 6th-5th century B.C..
     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pindar

2. Komvos. in medieval/modern Greek, meaning knot. Today it is pronounced as "kompos" ( consonant pair mv turned into mp),  so this is probably what causes the confusion. From the same root, the word "komvion", now pronounced as "kombi" or 'koombi", meaning button.
    ( 5th century A.C., Hesychius)
     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesychius_of_Alexandria

    The ancient/classic Greek word for "knot" is "desmos".
    Homer,
    Iliad, Z 507,
    Odyssey, A 204, N 100, Φ 241
    For a somewhat more recent use of the word, see :
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmodromic_valve

   
This is not a knot.

Sweeney

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Re: What do you call the study of knots
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2011, 09:49:23 PM »

   No.You confuse two different  words. Search for a better dictionary :)
   Those two words do not have the same root, and we know how one of them came to mean what you describe by "kompology".
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Greek%E2%80%93English_Lexicon#Liddell_and_Scott.27s_lexicon
   http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/ 


The problem is that English has adopted Kompos as a root for Kompology whereas  as you say Komvos would be the correct root to describe knotting and in English the word would be pronounced as written thereby distinguishing the two. As far as I can tell there is no such word as komvology already in use but that doesn't mean we have to invent one - I am not convinced of the need for an "ology" other than for academic purposes and even then it seems otiose but as we have settled on nodology let's stick with it.

Barry

Barry

xarax

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Re: What do you call the study of knots
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2011, 06:34:54 AM »
   I am not convinced of the need for an "ology" other than for academic purposes, and even then it seems otiose but as we have settled on nodology let's stick with it.

   It is not a big deal if we have a word for the study of physical knots, to distinguish it from the study of mathematical knots ( Knot theory). Nodeo-logy , or Nodo-logy ( a Latin + a Greek word/root) is fine, as fine would be the Desmo-logy ( two greek words/roots).
This is not a knot.

DerekSmith

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Re: What do you call the study of knots
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2011, 07:58:38 PM »
Hi Xarax,

Yes, we have Nodeology, but I really like Desmology.

My name is Derek, and I tie knots..  opps sorry, that is the Thursday group...

My name is Derek, and I am often called Des or Desser, even Desmo on occasion.

So, given I am a knotting nutter, then Desmology suits me down to the ground...

Derek the Desmologist
« Last Edit: December 18, 2011, 11:37:37 PM by DerekSmith »

capellagroup

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Re: What do you call the study of knots
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2012, 02:39:53 AM »
Yes, and Derek the Desmologist sounds much more impressive than plain old Derek SMIFF!

I'm with you, Derek, although Johnthe Desmologist doesn't sing to me in the same key.....