Author Topic: I am probably a liar, and this is not a Practical Knot.  (Read 16313 times)

xarax

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I am probably a liar, and this is not a Practical Knot.
« on: August 26, 2011, 07:17:09 PM »
   As one can see, there in no explicit "statement" that the knot I show at the attached pictures is a Practical Knot. There is nothing that can "prove" that this knot is a Practical knot. There is no mention of any Application of this knot, or any use of this knot. There is no "demonstration of the practical nature"(sic) of this knot (1). There is not even a description that classifies this knot into a knot category ( a bend, a loop, a hitch, a stopper, etc. ). All that there is, is a series of pictures of this knot.
   So, according to the opinion that some people are trying to impose in this Forum, this thread should be removed from this section of the Forum, after some opinion poll, or even automatically, without any such poll.
   I may be a liar, but I am also curious to see what are those people going to do... I guess that they will succeed to remove this thread, the one way or the other, from this section. Then, I guess that they are going to do the same thing with the next knot I will post in this section, with the same warning, and then with the next, etc.. When all the knots I have tied, and taken pictures of, will be moved to another section, I will have to tie new knots. No problem !  :) The Practical KnotLand may not be "vast", but it is huge, believe me on this !  :)

P.S. A screwdriver, is it a tool ? Can I post a picture of it in a "tools" forum?  If I so, do I have to "demonstrate" its practical nature, to "prove" that it is a tool, indeed, by showing the screw that I am going to screw with it ?  :)

1) http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3565.msg20373#msg20373
« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 07:30:56 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

xarax

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Re: I am probably a liar, and this is not a Practical Knot.
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2011, 07:18:08 PM »
2.
This is not a knot.

drnihili

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Re: I am probably a liar, and this is not a Practical Knot.
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2011, 08:37:07 PM »
I've been known to use a similar knot at the end of a lanyard for holding the two parts of a striker set.  I think I like your knot better.

xarax

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Re: I am probably a liar, and this is not a Practical Knot.
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2011, 09:48:19 PM »
   Thank you, drnihili,

  I have not thought of this application/use you describe, when I was tying this knot, or when I was presenting it in this thread. So, a practical application or use can be discovered, even AFTER a knot is tied and presented. And it can be discovered by another person than the person that has discovered the knot in the first place, BECAUSE the first knot tyer was able to publish the knot, and the second knot tyer was informed about this knot, and figured out an application/use - an application/use that had never crossed the first knot tyer s mind !
 "Practical Knot fundamentalists"  do not understand this. They believe that if there is a problem, we may discover a solution to this problem. So, the use dictates the tool that is going to be used. They do not understand that, often times, it is the exact opposite that happen to be the case. If there is a tool, we may discover an application/use for this tool. The tool reveals applications and uses that were not known before its discovery.
   If the knot is simple enough, and stable enough, and secure enough, it is very probable that an application or use of it will be discovered, that had not crossed our mind in advance. If we demand that the knot tyer should publish a knot, only if he has "demonstrated its practical nature", only if he had "proven" that this knot is "better" than all other knots, only if he had "stated explicitly an application/use"  for this knot, if we demand all those things in advance, we will kill the knot tyer s creativity, and limit the practical knots, and their applications, and their uses, only to what is already known. We will kill any progress in the field of knotting ! Is that what the "silent" or not majority of knot tyers in this forum really wish to happen ?
  
« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 09:52:36 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

roo

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Re: I am probably a liar, and this is not a Practical Knot.
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2011, 10:12:12 PM »
Xarax,

This looks very familiar.

I'd like to ask you a question, which is not intended to anger you or cause you to become defensive:

What are the practical advantages and disadvantages of this knot? 
If you wish to add a troll to your ignore list, click "Profile" then "Buddies/Ignore List".


xarax

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Re: I am probably a liar, and this is not a Practical Knot.
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2011, 10:35:57 PM »
What are the practical advantages and disadvantages of this knot?  

  I do not know, yet. I would be glad if somebody tells me something about it. I doubt that it will be you, but miracles happen !
   As you see, I have not stated any practical advantages or disadvantages, applications or uses, demonstrations or proofs, that this is a Practical Knot. So, what are you waiting for ? Why you do not report this thread, so it will be moved or removed from the forum ?  Am I have to "be waiting long" for you to act as you are acting the last two years, and 572 posts, and 83 threads ? Or you do not understand what I am talking about, because your Google translator failed to translate my incomprehensible language to your superior one ? Should I write the same things in my "native language", coming out of this third world north african country, where they have only recently discovered writing, and where nobody speaks English ?
  
   P.S. Should the mere action of asking questions, that are rhetoric or provocative - to say the least- be considered as a "contribution" to the advance knotting ? If yes, you are a great knot tyer, indeed...  
« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 10:37:40 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

roo

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Re: I am probably a liar, and this is not a Practical Knot.
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2011, 10:46:56 PM »
...Or you do not understand what I am talking about, because your Google translator failed to translate my incomprehensible language to your superior one ? Should I write the same things in my "native language", coming out of this third world north african country, where they have only recently discovered writing, and where nobody speaks English ?
*sigh*  Well, I tried.
If you wish to add a troll to your ignore list, click "Profile" then "Buddies/Ignore List".


admin

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Re: I am probably a liar, and this is not a Practical Knot.
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2011, 10:51:45 PM »
Xarax,

I appreciate that you are not a native English speaker and I do think that your grasp of English is generally  excellent. However, your previous post was unnecessarily  insulting to someone who asked a perfectly reasonable question. Please limit your comments to the discussion topic and do not use this forum to make personal attacks on any poster.

xarax

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Re: I am probably a liar, and this is not a Practical Knot.
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2011, 11:40:19 PM »
your previous post was unnecessarily  insulting to someone who asked a perfectly reasonable question.

  You are right, of course. I  agree on both of what you are saying.
  However, this "someone"(sic) is insulting me any time he wishes to, "the last two years, and 572 posts, and 83 threads". How did you failed to notice that? How many times have you told to him, the same thing you are telling to me, when he was insulting me ? Do not bother to count, I have done this "extensive" work for you : 0 (zero).
 
do not use this forum to make personal attacks on any poster

   How many times have you told to him, the same thing you are telling to me, when he was insulting me ? Do not bother to count, I have done this "extensive" work for you : 0 (zero), again ! What a coincidence !  :)

   I suggest this : Me and roo delete ALL posts that we are referring to each other. ( They are plenty !  :) ) And agree that no one of us post anything in a thread initiated by the other, without first a peer review by the Wb-Administrator. Is it a fair proposal ?
   I have been insulted by roo many times, some times so harshly that I was left with the impression - justified by the language, the tone and the hypocritical way of the insult - that I was a victim of a racist behaviour. I am not telling that I am sure that this was his real motive, I am saying that I was left with this impression. In some of my replies, I was also very harsh and unacceptable rude with him, but only as a legitimate defence. I would be happy to make a new start , if he wishes the same, and my proposal has this meaning. Now, you can consider this proposal be some "strings attached"(sic) from me to obey your notice. Not at all ! To say the truth, I would be proved to be correct in my accusations against him, if he succeeds to ban me from the forum, indefinitely, as I had predicted he will try to. I will not forget who is the "someone"  :) who asks a " perfectly reasonable question" :). He did it probably because he predicted you were going to swallow his trick, and intervene to correct me - as you should have done indeed, if this "someone" was not "him", and this "perfectly reasonable question" was not a cunningly chosen rhetoric one, to prove that the knot is not a Practical knot, or make me respond as I had, or something other equally malicious. As it is evident that you have not followed our history of mutual insulting, you have bitten ihis bait !  :)
   Tell me Web-Admin, do you REALLY believe that I would have responded the way I had, to some stranger that would have wished to ask me this question ? If yes, do not leave your day job for this unpaid administrator work !  :)
   I am dying to have a dialogue with anybody that wishes to talk to me about one f... knot !  I spend much time and effort travelling ALONE in this huge KnotLand, with the HOPE I meet a knot and bring it back to SOMEBODY . And you think that I "use this forum to make personal attacks"sic) to the rare bird, in the middle of the desert, that happens to ask me a question, that happens to have some interest in something I have made after so much time and effort ? If yes, I frankly suggest you take some prolonged vacancies,  together with roo... :)
   If you are offended by my language, as you should (!), make a brake, and study my proposal above, for a new start in my relations with roo. Then, delete this reply, that was intended to make you see the things not exactly as roo succeeded to make you think them, for yet another time !

Well, I tried.

Indeed you did ! Congratulations ! Your victims, the Web-Admin and me, salute you Caesar !  :)
  
« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 11:52:08 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

admin

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Re: I am probably a liar, and this is not a Practical Knot.
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2011, 11:56:20 PM »
1. There will be no more mass deleting of posts, thank you.

2. I am not the Web Admin. I am the Webmistress.

3. My job is not unpaid.

4. You are now trolling and I do not tolerate trolls [1]

This is your final warning.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29.

xarax

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Re: I am probably a liar, and this is not a Practical Knot.
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2011, 12:11:40 AM »
1. There will be no more mass deleting of posts, thank you.

I speak about deleting isulting posts, that should have been deleted by you right after they were posted. Is it a "mass deletion of posts" ? Thank you.

2. I am not the Web Admin. I am the Webmistress.

I do not know the difference, and I do not care about it. I have told you what I should tell to an authority which manages things in this Forum. [/quote]

3. My job is not unpaid.

That means you should be more careful when other people are insulting each other for two years, not less !

4. You are now trolling and I do not tolerate trolls This is your final warning.

You are unfair, and you threat me without reason, and I do not tolerate threats (1)

1)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threat
This is not a knot.

admin

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Re: I am probably a liar, and this is not a Practical Knot.
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2011, 12:28:41 AM »
I do not make threats. I give warnings.

You are now banned for 14 days.

Sweeney

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Re: I am probably a liar, and this is not a Practical Knot.
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2011, 09:39:29 AM »
Xarax,

This looks very familiar.

I'd like to ask you a question, which is not intended to anger you or cause you to become defensive:

What are the practical advantages and disadvantages of this knot?  

A similar if not identical knot was published in Knotting Matters in I think March this year (I can't find my copy or copy of the original which was sent to me as secretary to pass to the editor).

Barry

Barry
« Last Edit: August 27, 2011, 11:10:53 AM by Sweeney »

Dan_Lehman

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Re: I am probably a liar, and this is not a Practical Knot.
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2011, 09:11:37 PM »
A similar if not identical knot was published in Knotting Matters   in I think
March this year (I can't find my copy or copy of the original which was sent
to me as secretary to pass to the editor).
Barry

Ah, yes, you're right (and I might match you in
(dis)iorganization/findability of received mail, alas!).

It's surprising that this seems to be a *new* knot, given that
it is so like ABOK #1097, which treats the trio of paired
parts (the twin ends & two bights) as equals and gives each
the like relation to one of its neighbors --A is to B as B to C to A.
Even though their functions/loadings should be expected
to be not so equal.

One would expect someone to see the above point and look
to making A to B --speaking of the bights-- a reciprocal relation,
and the twin ends standing apart from this.

In any case, did I *know* of it?  Yes, by my own fiddling.  But,
how much *know*ing :  only now in gazing at these images
does it occur to me that one can see this as the twin ends
*pouring* material into a (horizontally oriented, here) twin
piece (with bight ends) that then ties an overhand knot
around the twin ends!

And doing some *theoretical* playing on this notion, why not see
about instead tying a fig.8  or better a symmetric fig.9 knot(s) !?
The former has a different symmetry from the original & latter,
so doesn't seem to offer a happy result; the latter gets bulky
without obvious advantage to that.  --but it leads to some more,
interesting musings about knot construction.

--dl*
====
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 05:03:23 AM by Dan_Lehman »

drnihili

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Re: I am probably a liar, and this is not a Practical Knot.
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2011, 11:31:01 PM »
Xarax,

This looks very familiar.

I'd like to ask you a question, which is not intended to anger you or cause you to become defensive:

What are the practical advantages and disadvantages of this knot? 

One advantage/disadvantage as compared to the knot I normally use is that the two loops in this knot are of fixed length.  The knot I normally use (sorry, I don't have a name for or a picture of it) has the two loops connect in such a way that one loop can be lengthened at the expense of the other after tying.  The tension on the knot is sufficient to keep this from happening without a stout pull.  Whether this difference is an advantage or a disadvantage depends on one's use and preferences of course.