Author Topic: I am probably a liar, and this is not a Practical Knot.  (Read 15328 times)

roo

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Re: I am probably a liar, and this is not a Practical Knot.
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2011, 05:40:20 AM »
The tension on the knot is sufficient to keep this from happening without a stout pull.  Whether this difference is an advantage or a disadvantage depends on one's use and preferences of course.

I did notice that when a certain combination of one standing part and one loop is pulled, this knot slips.    

As an aside, if you need a double loop knot with non-communicating loops, you might look over:
http://notableknotindex.webs.com/dsplayedloop.gif

...which is based on the Butterfly Loop.

Or the double loop knot discussed on the bottom of this page:
http://notableknotindex.webs.com/midspan.html
(see the second diagram)
« Last Edit: August 28, 2011, 05:50:14 AM by roo »
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drnihili

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Re: I am probably a liar, and this is not a Practical Knot.
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2011, 05:48:55 PM »
Those are both clearly sturdier knots, I especially like the one based on the butterfly.  But for my application, the knot doesn't have to be especially sturdy.  On the other hand, a certain neatness is appreciated.  The butterfly variant produces wider loops than OP knot.  While sturdier, these wider loops seem more likely to snag on passing branches and such, especially since the loops must be left around 4-6 inches in length each to allow the use of the striker.  Of course there's always the danger that the lanyard itself may snag, so perhaps the additional snag chance provided by the loops is minimal.  Still, for a striker lanyard I think I prefer the look of the narrow loops.  While aesthetic consideration are not entirely "practical", they may be considered part of the "practicality" of any knot that is to be worn.

On the other hand I think I'll try that butterfly variant on a fishing lanyard that needs multiple smallish loop along it's length.  The open loops seem like they might tangle amongst themselves less.

Dan_Lehman

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Re: I am probably a liar, and this is not a Practical Knot.
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2011, 07:43:57 PM »
I did notice that when a certain combination of one standing part and one loop is pulled, this knot slips.    

This isn't a good knot for isolated SParts.
One can imagine some circumstance in which a doubled
line was used for a handy purchase to pull something,
and that this knot worked well in presenting two,
splayed eyes for two strong pullers.  --rather casual
application, this, and hardly a strong reason d'etre,
but plausible (in the "many ways to skin a cat" thinking).

--dl*
====

SS369

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Re: I am probably a liar, and this is not a Practical Knot.
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2011, 10:19:27 PM »
Hello drnihili,

The double loop knot you've described reads like ABOK # 1087 aka Spanish "Bowline".
For more info on double loop knots here is an informative link with pictures.  http://www.layhands.com/Knots/Knots_DoubleLoops.htm
If this can be helpful to you.

SS

drnihili

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Re: I am probably a liar, and this is not a Practical Knot.
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2011, 04:31:39 AM »
Hello drnihili,

The double loop knot you've described reads like ABOK # 1087 aka Spanish "Bowline".
For more info on double loop knots here is an informative link with pictures.  http://www.layhands.com/Knots/Knots_DoubleLoops.htm
If this can be helpful to you.

SS

That's close, but not quite what I've been using.  I thank you greatly for the link though, there is much to think about and try out there.  One of these days soon I'll set up a camera.  I want to get some advice from the decorative forum on how to finish off a project I've been working on.

SS369

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Re: I am probably a liar, and this is not a Practical Knot.
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2011, 02:34:40 PM »
I think that it is high time that antagonistic statements cease. They really serve no purpose except that they can show mean spiritness. Sometimes it it is better to lead from the front than to slog through the mud from behind.
Sorry for the divergence from the OP.

SS

SS369

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Re: I am probably a liar, and this is not a Practical Knot.
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2011, 02:40:48 PM »
I find that the OP double loop knot has merit if the SP and WE are tied to each other using a bowline-like method. Essentially turning it into an end of line double loop. Not necessarily the best of breed, but another to use if someone likes the way it performs with the spread and splay of its loops.
I can see  Practical "decorative" usage attributes as well.

SS

knot4u

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Re: I am probably a liar, and this is not a Practical Knot.
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2011, 05:31:27 PM »
This knot is the only double loop I know that is both symmetric and has loops that don't communicate.  Still, I can't think of an application in which I'd prefer this knot over some other double loop knots I know.  If someone knows of an application, please share so we can discuss, thanks.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2011, 05:43:16 PM by knot4u »

Bob Thrun

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Re: I am probably a liar, and this is not a Practical Knot.
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2011, 05:52:36 PM »
I have used ABOK 1097 for one of the slings in a Plummer System climbing rig. I wanted a short side loop coming out perpendicular to the vertical foot sling.  I wanted the tied slings to be more or less permanent.

SS369

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Re: I am probably a liar, and this is not a Practical Knot.
« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2011, 06:18:23 PM »
Hello Bob,
Thank you for jostling my memory.

I had thought of this in regards to a "frog" climbing system where both feet/legs could be used to propel upwards as well. Not my personal pick though. Take a Prusik sling and tie this knot or type into the bottom, wrap around rope to be ascended and in conjunction with the other friction hitch to harness it will allow for the use of both legs.
Picture example here> http://www.onrope1.com/store/images/products/f40.jpg


Hello knot4u,  there quite a few relatively symmetrical double loop knots, see here > http://www.layhands.com/Knots/Knots_DoubleLoops.htm. What one will choose is a matter of need(s) and perhaps other criteria.

SS

roo

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Re: I am probably a liar, and this is not a Practical Knot.
« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2011, 06:37:15 PM »
The knot I normally use (sorry, I don't have a name for or a picture of it) has the two loops connect in such a way that one loop can be lengthened at the expense of the other after tying.  The tension on the knot is sufficient to keep this from happening without a stout pull. 
Might this mystery knot be a Sheepshank Double Loop?:

http://notableknotindex.webs.com/sheepshank.html
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knot4u

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Re: I am probably a liar, and this is not a Practical Knot.
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2011, 06:47:48 PM »
Just to be clear, the original knot is NOT the same as ABOK #1097.  Note that ABOK #1097 is NOT truly symmetric, while the original knot is truly symmetric.  Ashley says that #1097 is difficult to untie.  In contrast, the original knot is NOT difficult to untie.

These are some pretty neat advantages.  I wish Xarax would point out some advantages so I'm motivated to test a knot instead of summarily dismiss it.

Hello knot4u,  there quite a few relatively symmetrical double loop knots, see here > http://www.layhands.com/Knots/Knots_DoubleLoops.htm. What one will choose is a matter of need(s) and perhaps other criteria.

OK, but just to be clear, no knot on that page is truly symmetric.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2011, 07:28:03 PM by knot4u »

knot4u

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Re: I am probably a liar, and this is not a Practical Knot.
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2011, 06:56:18 PM »
If there is no name for this knot, I propose one of the following:

"Bipod" or "Mirror Double Loop"
« Last Edit: September 02, 2011, 09:39:02 PM by knot4u »

DerekSmith

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Re: I am probably a liar, and this is not a Practical Knot.
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2011, 11:56:20 PM »
The knot I normally use (sorry, I don't have a name for or a picture of it) has the two loops connect in such a way that one loop can be lengthened at the expense of the other after tying.  The tension on the knot is sufficient to keep this from happening without a stout pull. 
Might this mystery knot be a Sheepshank Double Loop?:

http://notableknotindex.webs.com/sheepshank.html

The mystery knot is not the Sheepshank Double loop, because in the SSDL there is direct translation from loop to loop,

while in this knot there is no direct translation.

roo

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Re: I am probably a liar, and this is not a Practical Knot.
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2011, 12:17:31 AM »
The mystery knot is not the Sheepshank Double loop, because in the SSDL there is direct translation from loop to loop,
Derek,
I was discussing drnihili's yet-to-be-pictured knot, not the knot xarax posted.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2011, 12:18:16 AM by roo »
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