Author Topic: What is the most appropriate board for the Bowline discussion?  (Read 20663 times)

WebAdmin

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Further to my post in the Bowline discussion, formerly of Practical board, currently on Theory board....

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For the core of the remaining discussion regarding the move of the Bowline thread - there is obviously room for lively discussion on what constitutes knot theory (in my understanding of this I do not have in mind the purely mathematical theory alone, but also esoteric discussions by afficionados of why a group of knots is defined as it is, and how they are distinguished between, and so on).  I will copy this part of my post as the beginning of a new thread to discuss such matters over on Chit-Chat initially, and I will put up a poll over whether or not to keep the Bowline thread on Theory, or move it back to Practical.  I prefer straight yes and no answers on such matters, it's easier for me to find out what people want me to do that way.

Once the final disposition of the Bowline thread is settled, then I can look through to see which of the obtruding posts can be removed.  That will probably be most of the posts of the last couple of days, all of my own posts, and the few which were in sole answer to my question.

For the purposes of retaining some of the opening points in this discussion, some of the contributors to the Bowline thread may wish to copy their posts over to here.  Posts of this type of discussion will very likely be amongst those deleted in the original thread, as being irrelevant to the question of what defines a Bowline, so this gives you an opportunity to retain, edit or refine those discussion points as you wish.

I will not be taking part in the discussion, and I will not be trawling the answers for a decision by any individual, I will be relying on a clear yes or no statement in the poll.  However, I am posting separate requests for guidance on what is the difference between theory and practical, and how you want me to determine the overall opinion of whether a thread is on the right board or not.

Regards,

Glenys
Lesley
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roo

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Re: What is the most appropriate board for the Bowline discussion?
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2011, 11:46:14 PM »
The most appropriate board would be the Knot Theory board.
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DerekSmith

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Re: What is the most appropriate board for the Bowline discussion?
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2011, 12:11:01 AM »
I do not believe that people who have not contributed to a topic should have any say in its management.

Roo for example made zero posts into the Bowline discussion thread so he should have zero votes, while Dan Lehman made 34 posts so his voice should command 34 votes.  The thread creator also has a special say, so his posts should perhaps count as double votes giving Agent_Smith a voice commanding 16 votes should he choose to cast them.

This Forum is only of interest because of its content, so those who create that content (liked or disliked) should have the greatest say over its management.  I personally made 30 posts and I cast my 30 votes for the thread to stay on the Practical Knots board as the OP chose at its creation.

Derek

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Re: What is the most appropriate board for the Bowline discussion?
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2011, 12:14:08 AM »
I do not believe that people who have not contributed to a topic should have any say in its management.
I purposely avoided that thread from the beginning because I knew what a train wreck it would become.  But if you want, I can certainly go over there and make some comments to comply with your arbitrary and illogical requirement above.
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DerekSmith

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Re: What is the most appropriate board for the Bowline discussion?
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2011, 09:08:50 AM »
I do not believe that people who have not contributed to a topic should have any say in its management.
I purposely avoided that thread from the beginning because I knew what a train wreck it would become.  But if you want, I can certainly go over there and make some comments to comply with your arbitrary and illogical requirement above.


And you would be welcome Roo - but please remember to stay on topic and should you need to discuss something not theoretical (at the moment), then you would need to follow your own advice and " If you want to go decorative or computational, or whatever, start a new thread in the appropriate place rather than hijacking a thread."

but that just gets a bit silly, doesn't it...

Derek

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Re: What is the most appropriate board for the Bowline discussion?
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2011, 03:25:02 PM »
  What magic future-predicting powers you have, roo ! I wish I had them, too.
We had a thread that was essentially inviting an irresolvable word-fight, and some of the players have been nearly banned in the past.  How could anyone not predict the outcome?
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knot4u

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Re: What is the most appropriate board for the Bowline discussion?
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2011, 05:08:26 PM »
Knot Theory

roo

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Re: What is the most appropriate board for the Bowline discussion?
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2011, 05:14:07 PM »
  What magic future-predicting powers you have, roo ! I wish I had them, too.
some of the players have been nearly banned in the past.  How could anyone not predict the outcome?

But you said you did, so you were wise enough to stay, on purpose, out of it !
I think you misread that sentence.

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And then you tried to teach me English, by translating your nonsense into my native language ! I will not forget this racist behaviour,
???
How is attempting to bridge the language barrier racist?  I guess no good deed goes unpunished. ::)
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roo

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Re: What is the most appropriate board for the Bowline discussion?
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2011, 05:39:09 PM »
How is attempting to bridge the language barrier racist?  I guess no good deed goes unpunished. ::)

  You pretend you do no not understanfd what i am talking about...because you fear to say what you really think.
You sure like to accuse people of hidden motives.  I'll tell you what I really think.  I think your repeated misinterpretation of people's posts is largely due to a language barrier.

It got to be such a problem, that I attempted to use Google to translate.
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xarax

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Re: What is the most appropriate board for the Bowline discussion?
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2011, 06:00:09 PM »
It got to be such a problem, that I attempted to use Google to translate.

   I will traslate "hypocricy" for you, without having to use the Google translator  :) : Υποκρισια.
This is not a knot.

roo

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Re: What is the most appropriate board for the Bowline discussion?
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2011, 06:03:49 PM »
It got to be such a problem, that I attempted to use Google to translate.

   I will traslate "hypocricy" for you, without having to use the Google translator  :) : Υποκρισια.
Already in this thread you have completely misread a simple sentence.  Please explain what hidden motive I would have for using Google translator.  I'm really curious.
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roo

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Re: What is the most appropriate board for the Bowline discussion?
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2011, 06:32:52 PM »
I have misread a simple xentence, and you are unable to understand a single word !
If you are unable to specify what hidden motives I have in using Google translator in response to language barriers, then I suggest it is about time you retract your malicious and nonsensical charges of racism.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2011, 06:34:53 PM by roo »
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roo

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Re: What is the most appropriate board for the Bowline discussion?
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2011, 06:59:04 PM »
  The malicious and nonsencical translation into my "native language",
So if I offer images to bridge the language barrier, is that racist?  Can you admit that there is a real language barrier involved here?
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Dan_Lehman

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Re: What is the most appropriate board for the Bowline discussion?
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2011, 07:23:18 PM »
I do not believe that people who have not contributed to a topic should have any say in its management.
... // ...
please remember to stay on topic

How about those who contribute to a forum
having say in forum  management?!
To demand of those interested in practical knotting
to participate in, e.g., a misplaced thread in that forum
about decorative knotting in order to be allowed say
about where the misplaced thread lies is hardly
right thinking!

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Roo for example made zero posts into the Bowline discussion thread so he should have zero votes, while Dan Lehman made 34 posts so his voice should command 34 votes.  The thread creator also has a special say, so his posts should perhaps count as double votes giving Agent_Smith a voice commanding 16 votes should he choose to cast them.

Now THIS is silly --really, the mistaken thread-starter ipso facto
gets double votes?!  --and should we take voting, when :
immediately, in which case the OP always wins; or after Roo
devotes sufficient time to rack up a goodly number of posts
to a misplaced/irrelevant-to-him thread so he can "manage" it?



A major issue here, though, is beside all the fine & not-so-fine
points regarding this particular thread, or more general management
and topic categorization : it is about how to conduct oneself in
participating in a group, and in this forum (and forums in general).
Differences of opinion abound.  But here we have a sort of thread
violence
conducted by Xarax because of a differing opinion --and that
is beyond the pale unacceptable, as is the continued utterance of
ad hominen invective against those of different opinions/reasonings.


Now, to the OP, I'll again state : what is sought is a question of how
to categorize knots that might be named "bowlines" --looking to various
indicators, such as historical naming, structural aspects, tying methods,
and whatever else moves one to decide yea/nay on such naming.

Is this a question of immediate practical  significance?  I say "no,
not really"; but I was not troubled by it at the time and as we saw
the discussion grew on this tricky issue of categorizing knots (but
we are yet to expand our inquiry to other knot *seeds* to see
how we might treat them).  And then, yes, with a mature (some
opined done-for-all-it's-worth) thread, the question of whether
it better fit under another forum was raised.  A couple/few of us
expressed opinions & rationales, a show of hands was asked,
and of a small interested group it was agreed to move it.
And that move --in what I can now first-hand report is a stark
contrast to "earth-shaking" (5.8 )-- was made; okay, we will click
on a thread in the "Theory & ..." forum.  whoopee.  No one should
lose their lunch over this.

Does it unequivocally belong there (with a "T" for "Theory")
and not here  (meaning where the OP started it) ?!  No,
the arguments can be made --and have been-- for either way.
Does the choice of placement come with a threat of violence?
Who votes (or otherwise expresses favor) FOR this consequence?!


Exploring how to answer a somewhat long-standing, and in recent
times, manifest in some IGKT activities/repots, question as to
How many *bowlines* are there? is arguably a question
of *theorizing* bases for in-/ex-clusion of candidates (the infamous
"Irish bowline" comes to mind), of seeking methods of analysis
for knots for making such human-imposed judgements, and, in so
doing, seeing how such methods, such conceptions bear up to use
in other cases --do they capture too many/few knots, are they
helpful?

To cite *art* in this analytical debate let's put it poetically.

 Specious reasoning, however fair,
 is like a missing link in a chain of thought:
 when Praxis seeks to pull it taut,
 it becomes apparent what isn't there!



And, in general, here is another poetic note about keeping
some sense of balance in reaching opinions:

  Prudence thrives on circumspection,
  as oft' the patient mind, reflective,
  reveals ideals of some perfection
  as mere illusions of perspective.

   -- Anon., II



--dl*
====

roo

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Re: What is the most appropriate board for the Bowline discussion?
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2011, 09:33:20 PM »
 When I meet a language barrier, I do not remind the person who finds difficulties in expressing his views ( like me), that he can not understand something I say, by throwing to him a translation of my text, in the Google translator !!
Translation services and books have been used for ages.  Other people do not become insanely enraged by their use.  It seems to be your problem alone.

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When I meet a language barrier I try to communicate to the other person using simpler sentences, words, structure of speech.

I have done that, too.  It's apparently not enough.

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When I speak a language, and another person is trying to speak to me in my language, I respect his efforts, and I do not humiliate him as you have tried to do.
See my first point.

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In the two years of my participation in this forum, in the hundred of posts and pictures I have made so much effort to publish, in a foreign to me language, you have never ever found something to say about.
This is off-topic, but false and easily disproven with a simple search, even though you have butchered the record by repeated deletions.

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You are not only a poor teacher of knots, but a teacher that fears and hates people that could be his students and be helped by him.
Ah, random insults.  But I am the one with hidden malicious motives?  I'm in good company.  It seems like you've accused nearly everyone in this forum of a similar charge... except yourself.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2011, 10:26:25 PM by roo »
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