Author Topic: Interlocked 8 bends - another twist on Phil D Smith's Riggers bend  (Read 11235 times)

agent_smith

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 993
I am presenting what I tentatively term an 'interlocked 8 bend' family of knots.

This type of interlocked knot can be tied by starting from the interlocked-loop base shown below - tails simply pass through the central opening going in opposite directions. This method of tying is an easier start compared to that depicted in Ashley's book of knots (in my humble opinion). This base is also useful for tying a few other similar knots (eg #1425a, and Butterfly bend - with the tail positions on same side).

As for practicalities, it appears at first impression to have some merit as a joining knot. Unscientific testing (ie me vigorously pulling and loading by hand strength only) initially indicates security and jam resistance. If I have time, I'll conduct some load tests using load cell to verify.

Mark




« Last Edit: July 17, 2011, 04:45:06 PM by agent_smith »

agent_smith

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 993
Re: Interlocked 8 bends - another twist on Phil D Smith's Riggers bend
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2011, 02:57:55 PM »
I have deleted 2 of my posts to save confusion.

Only the original (first) post remains...

Quote from xarax...
Quote
Now, please, tie all the possible "fig.8-link" bases following the same procedure, and then their X variations, and publish them. Doing this, you will be sure you have not missed anything that might be proved to be interesting later

Sorry, run out of energy and steam for this family of knots. Why don't you work on this one xarax?
« Last Edit: July 18, 2011, 01:22:44 AM by agent_smith »

Wed

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 313
Re: Interlocked 8 bends - another twist on Phil D Smith's Riggers bend
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2011, 07:52:40 PM »
When you take photos, it is best to shoot against a white background with high intensity illumination. If you don't have work lights, try shooting outdoors in full sunshine (again, you must use a white backboard).
It is of course a bit subjective, and I have been wrong before. I however find xarax' images preferable to yours. The dark green on white has too much of contrast, and the yellow too little. Whereas xarax images don't sting in my eyes and the contrast is well balanced.

Quote
I use a program called 'microsoft office picture manager' - which comes standard with office 2007 or 2010. If you've taken your photo in good lighting against a white background, you can then open the image in picture manager to set a completely invisible background. You can also adjust colour balance and brightness/contrast etc.
http://www.gimp.org/ is a program with astounding features. And it doesn't cost anything. http://www.irfanview.com/ is a program that manages resizing and other lightweight post processing, even batchwise, very very well. That too is free of charge.

xarax

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2781
Re: Interlocked 8 bends - another twist on Phil D Smith's Riggers bend
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2011, 11:35:19 PM »
   Agent Smith had the idea to modify the 8 different retucked Reef-family-of-knots "bases", by forcing the working end of each link to make a half turn around its own standing part, before it is tucked into the common central openings of the two interlinked bights. Doing this, the interlocked-overhand-knot bends that would had been formed if that twist had not taken place, are now transformed to interlocked-fig.8-knot bends. Going one step further, one can make the tails of those bends to  cross each other before they exit the knot s nub, so the interlocking of the two knots will be even more extended. The whole new family of bends that emerges, has some very interesting members. In this and the following posts, the interested reader can find a complete enumeration of the members of this family, and the relevant pictures.The bends with the not-crossed tails are presented first, and then their crossed tails versions ( their X ed : crossed tails versions).
« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 10:51:59 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

xarax

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2781
Re: Interlocked 8 bends - another twist on Phil D Smith's Riggers bend
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2011, 11:37:51 PM »
   The interlocked-fig.8-knot versions of the Hunter s bend, and the Shakehands-X bend.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 10:55:22 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

xarax

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2781
Re: Interlocked 8 bends - another twist on Phil D Smith's Riggers bend
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2011, 11:41:05 PM »
 The interlocked-fig 8-knot versions of the Alpine butterbly bend, and its colour symmetric knot.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2011, 07:28:23 AM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

xarax

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2781
Re: Interlocked 8 bends - another twist on Phil D Smith's Riggers bend
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2011, 11:43:25 PM »
   The interlocked-fig.8-knot version of the ABoK#1408 bend.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2011, 07:31:57 AM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

xarax

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2781
Re: Interlocked 8 bends - another twist on Phil D Smith's Riggers bend
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2011, 11:45:01 PM »
   The interlocked-fig. 8-knot version of the Ashley s bend.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2011, 09:50:01 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

xarax

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2781
Re: Interlocked 8 bends - another twist on Phil D Smith's Riggers bend
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2011, 08:35:50 PM »
   At the posts that follow, one can see all the X ( X : crossed tails ) versions of the Mark s / Hunter s / Shakehands- like knots, generated by retucking the Reef-family-of-knots bases. First come the pictures of the simpler interlocked-overhand-knot bends, where the working ends are not twisted around their standing ends, before they tuck themselves into the central opening of the base.
   ( The pictures of the X versions of the interlocked-fig.8-knot bends, will follow soon.)
   There are two things in this series that are worth mentioning. First, the two versions of the Hunter s X bends, the Hunter s X1 and the Hunter X2 bends. Almost identical, but still different, they look like the Zeppelin X bend in that, although the crossing of the tails introduces an asymmetry into the knot structure, relatively to its parent knot, the two links remain, somehow, symmetric to each other, i.e. we still have a "love bend".
   The second interesting thing is the fact that the Shakehands-X  bend, when its tails are crossed before they exit the knot s nub, generates two different knots :  the known common Shakehands bend, and another strange form, which, for the the time being, I call simply as the "Shakehands II bend". ( I an not aware of any references to this later form, but I have not searched enough, because the name was not of any concern here.) This strange knot seems to be a very secure bend, and I will be surprised if it was not mentioned somewhere, even as a comment to a mistakenly tied common Shakehands bend.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 11:30:51 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

xarax

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2781
Re: Interlocked 8 bends - another twist on Phil D Smith's Riggers bend
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2011, 08:38:32 PM »
   The second Mark s bend, the Mark s B bend, in its two X variations.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 11:32:59 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

xarax

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2781
Re: Interlocked 8 bends - another twist on Phil D Smith's Riggers bend
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2011, 08:40:26 PM »
  The two Hunter s X bends.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 11:34:54 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

xarax

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2781
Re: Interlocked 8 bends - another twist on Phil D Smith's Riggers bend
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2011, 08:43:59 PM »
   Finally, the two forms of the Shakehands bend, The tails in the Shakehands bend are crossed, but because they can be crossed in two different ways, there can be two different knots :The common Shakehands I bend, and the Shakehands II bend. Any references about the later are much welcomed.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 11:37:14 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

Dan_Lehman

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3764
Re: Interlocked 8 bends - another twist on Phil D Smith's Riggers bend
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2011, 04:05:05 AM »
  The interlocked-fig.8-knot version of the Alpine butterfly bend.

Clearly not, as the latter is asymmetric, unlike what you show,
which is more akin to Ashley's #1408.
(I think that you want the "A-3 bend" for the Lineman's loop. )

I find that I would form the corresponding knots differently:
I'd alter the intermediate part so as to preserve the exit of
the tail (direction), rather than --as you do here-- simply
re-direct the tail for the extra half-wrap making an "8".
(So, backing out of what *I* would consider the *8'd*
version of #1452 as though formed in your way, and
re-tucking after subtracting the half-wrap, I get #1408.)
My way preserves the general disposition of the SParts'
entry.

Interesting ...

--dl*
====

xarax

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2781
Re: Interlocked 8 bends - another twist on Phil D Smith's Riggers bend
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2011, 08:27:01 AM »
[the Alpine butterfly]  is asymmetric, unlike what you show, which is more akin to Ashley's #1408.
(I think that you want the "A-3 bend" for the Lineman's loop. )

   You are right, of course. My mistake. I have now edited the labels of the relevant pictures.
   The previously labelled as A 3(a) and A 3(b) bends are the two "colour symmetric" versions of the Alpine butterfly bend, generated by retucking the A1b and A2b "bases". Retucking the B1a and B2a bases we get the ABoK#1408 and ABoK#1452 bends, respectably.(1)

formed in your way,
  It is not "my" way, it is agent smith s way. I only take the pictures of the various combinations, starting from agent smith s general idea to force a twist of the one or both ends around itself , before tuck this/those ends into the central opening of a Reef-family-of-knots "base".
    I do not "redirect" the tails : The tails go wherever they do, following their own paths, when the standing parts are twisted around themselves, as previously described, and then retucked through the common central opening of the two bights, without changing the orientation of those bights. The only thing I do here is to make sure they do not cross each other, before they exit the knot s nub. I will post pictures of those X ed, i.e. crossed-tails variations, soon.

1) http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=2826.msg19395#msg19395
« Last Edit: July 25, 2011, 08:32:55 AM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

xarax

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2781
Re: Interlocked 8 bends - another twist on Phil D Smith's Riggers bend
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2011, 12:33:10 AM »
   Finally, the X versions ( X ; crossed tails ) of the interlocked-fig. 8-knot bends.
   ( The X variations are possible only with the 4 -out of the 8 different- Reef-family-of-knots "bases", where the working ends are coming from opposite directions / sides, before they are tucked into their common central opening. ( So, the tails are pointing to opposite directions: this is happening to the two Mark s bends, the Hunter s bend and the Shakehands-X bend ) In the other 4 cases ( the two Alpine butterfly bends, the ABoK#1408 bend and the Ashley bend ( ABoK#1452)),  we have three, at least, different dressings for each knot, but those variations, (not shown here), remain topologically equivalent to their parent knots). 
This is not a knot.