I appreciate the polite tone of the previous post, which is something that can solve the most tightly jammed issue, I believe. So, let me restate some things I have already tried to point out in two previous replies, in vein...
1) The first request for a "vote" was made at the 89 th reply (!) of this thread, that is, 88 replies after the first post, and almost ONE MONTH after it had started. Not the subject, nor the essence of the replies were changed in any significant way in between the first and the 89 th reply. So, why did the Web-administrator waited all that time, before asking for this "vote"? Was it because somebody
decided that the thread was already too "long"(sic), and forced the Web-administrator to impose that meaningless "voting" farce, as an excuse to its removal ? Was it because of the fact that he did not
liked the prolongation of the debate, and not because the debate itself was off-section ? My understanding is that this was indeed the case, that it was
the size of the thread, and not
the subject of the thread, that was the real motive to
"knock it out"(sic) from the "Practical knots" section, and bury it somewhere it was less
annoying...
I can only guess it from the following revealing text :
I'm not knocking the long discussion on this Forum about the definition of a bowline, but that sort of discussion could be a real turnoff for a newcomer !
I wish I am mistaken on this, of course...
2) In the first request for the infamous "vote", the Web-administrator was cautious not to express any personal judgement about the heart of the matter :
"I have received a request to move this thread to a more suitable location on the grounds that it is a purely theoretical discussion, rather than a practical one."(sic)
Then, after the so-called "votes" were cast and counted, ( by the way, not a very difficult job, taking into account the fact that the "votes" were 6 (six) !
), the tone was changed :
"I gather from the foregoing 12 pages of discussion that you gentlemen have certainly been doing [Knot theory and Computing] with this thread. Therefore, that seems the most appropriate place for it to go."(sic)
So, now after 176 (!) posts, 12 (!) pages of replies and 40 (!) days , and been equipped with this cataclysmic 5-1 result...the Web-administrator finally made up his mind, and decided that this thread was really off-section ! I thank the Web-administrator for all
the laugh that this prompt action offered to me !
The action should have taken place
right after the first days and posts, without any help/excuse of any "vote". If the opinion of the participants of the discussion was needed, they should have been asked for it, but
they should not made responsible for any decision, which is in the absolute power and responsibility of the Web-administrator - whatever the outcome of the "counting" of any such opinion poll. I have the courage to express my opinion, even if it is the 1 of the 5.000.000 opposite opinions, and so I expect/demand the person who has the power and the responsibility to move or remove my posts, to do the same ! The hypocritical-like "voting" was forced without any reason, and it should have stopped right after it was stalled to this lamentable 5-1 result, of which we should be ashamed !
3) There are people that have an altogether narrow view of knotting, and believe that the "Practical Knots" section should refer only to
applications, uses, of practical knots, and not about the practical knots themselves,
their form and their structure. Any discussion about a knot, however "practical" this knot might be ( and there is no knot more "practical" than the king of knots, the bowline, of course...) seems to those people a waste of time, a waste of valuable bits and bytes, and a danger to new registrations by newcomers. Now, if this discussion is short lived, like most of them are, they just ignore it. However, if it starts to be really interesting to some people, and generates many replies, they start to
hate it, and try to de-evaluate it by all means, ridicule it, etc.. I have been the victim of such behaviour. not one, not two, but
many times...Some members of the forum
translated and posted their "comments" in my native language, for me to understand it ! Of course, I have not seen any Web-administrator noticing this racist behaviour.
I refused to obey to this attitude then, and I will never obey to this attitude ever. If this will be forced on my posts by some pre-fabricated "majority" of 5 or so people, let it be, but I have the right to delete any of my posts, before they will be deleted or moved or removed by others. without any reason given and against my will, as it has been done already in the past !
The truth is simple: There are horses for courses. Knot tyers that prefer to solve problems using knots as tools, and knot tyers that prefer to study the knots themselves, their structure, their form, their function, trying to improve those tools. This has nothing to do with any "Knot theory", which is a theory of the
mathematical, not the physical, not the practical knots. The "Practical Knots" Section could have been divided into those two sub-sections, the
"Applications of Practical Knots" sub-section, and the
"Structure/form/function of Practical Knots" sub-section. Both are indispensable for the promoting of knotting, and should be respected equally.
So, unless this distinction is not implemented, or
both of those sub-sections are not considered as part of the existing "Practical Knots" section, as it was supposed to be till now, I do not wish to post anything under the misleading "Knot Theory" section, and diminish the "Practical Knots" section. Needless to say, if my opinion -of what is worth- was asked, I would have had no doubt whatsoever where the "structure and characteristics of bowline" thread belongs ! However, I was not asked about it...I was asked to "vote" if it should be contained in the "Practical Knot" section ( Of course it should ! ) or in the misleading, non-existend "Knot Theory" section ( Of course it should not !) .
4) When 68 of my posts, which I spend so much time to write _ and, not having adequate access to the language, I spend much more time than the other members of the Forum to express myself ...-, when all my pictures of the knots, which I spend so much time to explore, tie, shoot, select the better of them, convert them to a white background, reduce their size...-when all this work was moved by the 5-1 "vote" under a misnomer "Knot Theory" section, , I said, enough is enough. However, I made a copy of them, and kept them in a file, just in case a member of the discussion wished me to send them to him. And then, just as it had happened the other time, there comes the usual suspect, the self appointed advocate of the "authority"/majority", with his carefully chosen vitriolic style :
...someone who would not get along with this, who must remove his numerous posts --68 deletions are what he was willing to pay ... if he cannot get His way!
In short, I am some kind of
"raving lunatic"(sic) AND a masochist, too,(!) that is willing to spend a month of his short remaining life, only to delete it afterwards, to impose HIS way ! One easily gets
mad with this - what was probably the real intention of the author of this envious "reply" - and pushes the delete button at once ! So, I deleted my copy of the thread with all my 68 replies....and I have regretted this now, of course...I only managed to save some pictures, that I had filed in another folder. If I had my replies, I would have posted them to the Web-administrator, because I have a soft spot of polite manners, even coming from people who had treated me so wrongly and unfairly in the past.
I do not believe that anybody really wishes to have this discussion go forward, but me... Judging from the number of visits at the attached pictures, I have not seen any interest in the pictures of the "8" shaped bowlines, or the double.crossed coils bowlines, I had spend so much time to explore, tie, take pictures of, etc.. People just wish to learn how to escape from a prison, using two sheets - not with the Count-of-Monte-Christo way, of course...
Anyway, I have learned a lot by trying to express my view on this thread, and I would love to participate in a new dialogue that could take place somewhere in the future....(if my participation is of any worth, or asked by anybody...) - in a proper
"Practical knots form/structure" section, next to the
"Applications/uses of Practical knots" section !