Author Topic: what knot is this?  (Read 7841 times)

ianxm

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what knot is this?
« on: May 20, 2011, 10:26:08 PM »
What is the name for this knot?  I couldn't find it in ABOK or on the web.  It's most similar to the trucker's hitch, prusik, and constrictor.  It seems secure, doesn't jam, and it has a mechanical advantage when tightening.


Sweeney

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Re: what knot is this?
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2011, 11:02:49 AM »
It looks like ABOK #272 - the slingstone hitch - with an extra turn around the object.

Barry

ianxm

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Re: what knot is this?
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2011, 05:34:12 PM »
yes, and also the kellig #1697, which is the same I guess.  But those are hitches and this is a binding knot.  The difference is the round turns and that the working ends are tucked under them, creating friction which holds it in place.  I've been using this when a constrictor won't hold.

knot4u

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Re: what knot is this?
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2011, 07:53:43 PM »
Nice, where an object allows 4 wraps, I may be using this one.

Regarding the Constrictor, there are some recent threads discussing a few new binders that are better than the Constrictor in many ways.  It may be good to check them out because, depending on the length of rope, 4 wraps around the object may not be feasible.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2011, 04:35:26 AM by knot4u »

ianxm

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Re: what knot is this?
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2011, 12:54:17 PM »
Good.  I hope it is useful to you.

I saw the thread about the gleipnir and derivatives.  It is very interesting.  It doesn't feel as though it holds as tightly, though.

This one does use a lot of rope since it needs the four wraps.  I've just been using it for non-critical tasks using twine or clothesline, which are cheap, so it hasn't been an issue.

[Inkanyezi] gone

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Re: what knot is this?
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2011, 07:07:03 AM »
Good.  I hope it is useful to you.

I saw the thread about the gleipnir and derivatives.  It is very interesting.  It doesn't feel as though it holds as tightly, though.


I have used the Gleipnir to hold objects very tightly, for example a round metal tube of a sunshade to a rectangular stanchion on my balcony, and the elecric outlet strips that I attached to the feet of the table where I have my computer. When the Gleipnir is well tightened, it is very tight, and it holds - forever. I have used the constrictor in the same way, but it has the drawback that it needs a convex surface to hold, while Gleipnir can have it's nip over a  flat surface or even over a gap. When tightened with some kind of implement, as two marlingspikes, screwdrivers or any similar objects that can be jerked repeatedly to gain a bit more with each jerk, it can be drawn very tight, in fact so tight that it deforms a metal tube, shrinking its diameter.

The connector strip in the image can only be shifted slightly by nudging it by hand, it is firmly attached to the foot of the table.
Those are single TurNips on splitfilm polypropylene string.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2011, 07:22:11 PM by Inkanyezi »
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ianxm

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Re: what knot is this?
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2011, 06:33:25 PM »
I replaced the knot above (which I'll  refer to as the "slingstone binder" until someone comes forth with its proper name) with xarax binders in a few places to try it out.  one was a laundry drying rack that had warped and loosened and was sagging unevenly (pic1).   I tied the poles together at both ends using twine to correct it.  I tried some hitches and a constrictor, all of which slipped.  the slingstone binder worked fine (pic2).  last night I replaced them with xarax binders, which worked perfectly.  the slingstone binder, like the constrictor, needs a convex surface, so I had to keep the knot right on one of the poles.  the xarax binder could float between the poles and used half of the string.  one thing though is that when tightening the xarax binder by pulling on the ends, it felt as though the string would snap, so I compressed the drying rack to create slack and pulled the ends to take up the slack.  I didn't feel the need to do that when tightening the slingstone binder.

the other test was attaching my bike pump to the frame using paracord (pic3).  it has to be tied to a vertical tube, so it has to hold very tightly or it will fall.  it also has to withstand vibration and bumps.  so far it's gone 7 miles without slipping, but it doesn't feel nearly as tight as the slingstone binder (pic4).

Inkanyezi,  that's a good example of use.  exactly the sort of thing I was looking for in the "knots around the house" thread.  I was only tightening by hand (for both knots), so that may have been why I wasn't getting it very tight.

[Inkanyezi] gone

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Re: what knot is this?
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2011, 07:27:33 PM »
I would hesitate to use a very tight knot of this kind on a bike pump, because it might most certainly be deformed by the pressure. With shock cord however I think it would be fine. I often use the *Gleipnir on a piece of shock cord when attaching stuff to my bike rack. I have used the Gleipnir in various types of stuff all since I got to know it, and I am really impressed of its performance. However, when it is in a place where vibration gives repeated slack, it gives a little, although I haven't yet seen one capsize or become undone.

For about a year, it has been one of my most used knots.

*(Post edit: Correction of constrictor that was a brain fart; should bee Gleipnir.)
« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 06:48:05 AM by Inkanyezi »
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roo

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Re: what knot is this?
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2011, 07:28:49 PM »
  I was only tightening by hand (for both knots), so that may have been why I wasn't getting it very tight.

You might also investigate the Versatackle for your various needs:

http://notableknotindex.webs.com/Versatackle.html
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ianxm

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Re: what knot is this?
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2011, 04:02:21 AM »
Inkanyezi, you're right I should get shock cord for the bike pump.  the paracord has a bit of elasticity, but more would be better.  one advantage of the slingstone binder for the bike pump is that it holds on well even if it isn't as tight since it has four wraps.  conversely, it wouldn't work for your connector strip since that doesn't have room for four wraps.

roo, the versatackle looks very cool.  I will be looking for an opportunity to use it.

civis romanus

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Re: what knot is this?
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2012, 08:08:29 AM »
What is the name for this knot?
I was browsing the German Wikipedia page about the Prusik knot when I noticed a variant referred to as 'Gerard Hitch', which I initially thought was the same as the one posted by Ianxm. But then, comparing the two, I realized they are different.
This is the direct link to the picture:
http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:PrusikInnenWickeln1-6.jpg

In this variant, the loop wraps around the bound object in the same way, but the ends of the rope pass through the loop in the opposite direction and they are not tucked, so it's basically a slingstone hitch with two or more wraps, which I don't think is mentioned in ABOK.
The main benefit of this knot claimed by the page is that the ends no longer have to be passed through the loop several times, as they do for the standard Prusik. The knot is named after E. Gerard, who published it in 1922, in La Montagne.

I hope the report will be of some interest.
I also take the occasion of my first post in this forum for saying hello to everybody.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 08:09:58 AM by civis romanus »

squarerigger

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Re: what knot is this?
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2012, 04:31:52 AM »
Welcome civis and thanks for posting!

SR

DerekSmith

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Re: what knot is this?
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2012, 10:12:14 AM »
Hi Civis,

Welcome, and thanks for the link.

Derek

agent_smith

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Re: what knot is this?
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2012, 02:06:40 AM »
Hello civis,

I had to mention that this is the form typically tied by climbing/abseiling/caving trainees when asked (in their knot assessment) to tie a prusik hitch.

Some accidentally tie the form you show here by mistake - my thought is that the trainee(s) are trying to take a short-cut by simply wrapping multiple loops around the parent rope and then quickly finishing by feeding the loop back through itself (like a girth hitch).

If the assessor required the trainee to demonstrate a prusik hitch ("ABoK #1763") the assessor would have to judge the result a 'fail' if they tied the hitch shown here http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:PrusikInnenWickeln1-6.jpg

That is not to say there is anything wrong with this 'reversed' form of the prusik - its just that it is often how the prusik is incorrectly tied. I have seen this 'reversed' form of the prusik since the 1980's.

Mark
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 07:29:35 AM by agent_smith »

firebight

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Re: what knot is this?
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2012, 06:19:17 AM »
Inkanyezi, you're right I should get shock cord for the bike pump.  the paracord has a bit of elasticity, but more would be better.  one advantage of the slingstone binder for the bike pump is that it holds on well even if it isn't as tight since it has four wraps.  conversely, it wouldn't work for your connector strip since that doesn't have room for four wraps.

roo, the versatackle looks very cool.  I will be looking for an opportunity to use it.

Glad I am not the only one who think the Versatackle is cool  ;D