Author Topic: Can anyone help identify this "adjustable" non-slipping loop?  (Read 3575 times)

engineeringsimon

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Hi,

I was trying out an idea to make loop, perhaps adjustable using the constrictor knot tied around the standing part of the rope.

I found that if you keep the constrictor part loose, then the size of the loop can be adjusted, but when you tighten the constrictor knot, it seems to change form into a loop that doesn't seem to slip.

Also, I tried the idea as a bend, with the idea that you tie one rope to another via a constrictor knot (same diameter ropes). Again the knot collapses into what looks like a fairly symmetrical knot.

Breathless with excitement at the prospect that I may have invented a new knot, I consulted the great Ashley's Book of Knots (Bends, Loops) to see if I could identify what it was I had made. I couldn't find the exact knot anywhere. The closest was a bend that seemed to match the carrick bend diagram for this knot except that the standing part and end were reversed on one side. The close match was scathingly disparaged as a knot that easily slips.

Can anyone help identify this? At the very least tying a constrictor knot to the standing part could make an "adjustable" non-slipping loop.


roo

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Re: Can anyone help identify this "adjustable" non-slipping loop?
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2011, 04:21:26 PM »
Hi,

I was trying out an idea to make loop, perhaps adjustable using the constrictor knot tied around the standing part of the rope.

I found that if you keep the constrictor part loose, then the size of the loop can be adjusted, but when you tighten the constrictor knot, it seems to change form into a loop that doesn't seem to slip.

Also, I tried the idea as a bend, with the idea that you tie one rope to another via a constrictor knot (same diameter ropes). Again the knot collapses into what looks like a fairly symmetrical knot.

Breathless with excitement at the prospect that I may have invented a new knot, I consulted the great Ashley's Book of Knots (Bends, Loops) to see if I could identify what it was I had made. I couldn't find the exact knot anywhere. The closest was a bend that seemed to match the carrick bend diagram for this knot except that the standing part and end were reversed on one side. The close match was scathingly disparaged as a knot that easily slips.

Can anyone help identify this? At the very least tying a constrictor knot to the standing part could make an "adjustable" non-slipping loop.
This has been discussed in this forum before, usually in the general form of the Ashley Book of Knots entry #1445.  It has serious stability/security problems.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2011, 04:47:52 PM by roo »
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knot4u

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Re: Can anyone help identify this "adjustable" non-slipping loop?
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2011, 06:26:24 PM »
Aside from stability issues, I would not call this process inventing a new knot.  You took a binder (Constrictor) and tied it as a loop and a bend.  That's an obvious variation and, thus, not an invention.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2011, 08:22:22 PM by knot4u »

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Can anyone help identify this "adjustable" non-slipping loop?
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2011, 07:03:08 PM »
...
Can anyone help identify this?
At the very least tying a constrictor knot to the standing part could make an "adjustable" non-slipping loop.

Yes, someone can --what's the saying, "Third time's a charm!"  ?

(The question is about an eyeknot, so remarks about a bend don't answer it.
And using a known thing to beget a novel thing is well enough "invention".)

Cf. this forum thread : http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1481.msg10398#msg10398

NB: You omit saying how you orient the constrictor on the line,
and doing so one way and capsizing it yields what has been presented
(in IGKT's Knotting Matters ca. 2005) as the "Swedish Bowline"
or "bollard loop" , and in the other orientation the "Myrtle loop"
 --both workable eyeknots, which I've found "in the wild" (more often
the former).

And despite the bollard loop's simplicity and good characteristics
(you might try *doubling* it with a repeated wrap of the tail),
I've only come across it in one place, in the literature --in a photo
attributed to Samson Cordage of yacht line tied to some boat hardware!?
--odd that this would be obscure (in literature)!

Cheers,
--dl*
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« Last Edit: May 16, 2011, 04:24:35 AM by Dan_Lehman »

engineeringsimon

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Re: Can anyone help identify this "adjustable" non-slipping loop?
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2011, 01:28:50 AM »
Thanks for the ID on the loop knot Dan; I knew it was too obvious a thing to be new.

The difference between Ashley's comments on the bend form #1445 and it's apparent security makes me want to replicate his slipping / jerking experiment for myself, just for fun.

I wonder how long the list of knots not in ABoK is? Can't be that many.

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Can anyone help identify this "adjustable" non-slipping loop?
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2011, 04:31:10 AM »
I wonder how long the list of knots not in ABoK is? Can't be that many.

It can't?
I roughly guesstimate that I've discovered some 1-1.5 THOUSAND
knots not in ABOK --out of the infinite set.  (And consider
that the book has perhaps about the same number or fewer,
if one discounts "button knots", splices, and various other
things presented.)

--dl*
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engineeringsimon

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Re: Can anyone help identify this "adjustable" non-slipping loop?
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2011, 06:17:59 AM »
Blimey!  :o