Author Topic: Midspan bends.  (Read 43254 times)

knot4u

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Re: Midspan bends.
« Reply #75 on: February 09, 2012, 07:25:33 PM »
you violate the rules of the original post because you need access to more than one end. (Strangle can't be tied on the bight).

  I supposed that was a mistaken remark by knot4u, said under the heat of a debate  :), but, as yet another member made the same mistake, I have to mention what I thought was obvious : at the 6 knots shown at Replies#57- #62 the white line is representing the main line, and the orange/red line the attached line. The problem was/is to connect a second, secondary line on a certain point of a main line. The Constrictor, at the Adjustable Loop of Reply#27 and Reply#30, the shape "8' nipping structure of the 2coils-2collar loop at Reply#42, and the Pretzel, Strangle and two-interlinked-overhand knots  at Replies#57-61, are tied with the attached line ( using one or both ends of it).

That's not what I meant. Go back and read my post. I was suggesting presenting pics/diagrams in a way that makes the knot memorable. As the pics are presented now (white rope stationary, orange rope doing all the work), the knots are not memorable. My suggestion was to forget the rule in the original post, show the Strangle Knot in its more recognizable form, and then show the white rope passing through the orange rope in a memorable way.

It may not be possible to show pics that are memorable, but for future reference I don't mind if you free yourself from the rule in the OP.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 07:26:15 PM by knot4u »

xarax

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Re: Midspan bends.
« Reply #76 on: February 09, 2012, 07:49:50 PM »
That's not what I meant. I was suggesting presenting pics/diagrams in a way that makes the knot memorable. As the pics are presented now (white rope stationary, orange rope doing all the work), the knots are not memorable. My suggestion was to forget the rule in the original post, show the Strangle Knot in its more recognizable form, and then show the white rope passing through the orange rope in a memorable way.

   Ok, sorry, I see what you mean. As I have said, this was only a first presentation, and its purpose was to show the different knots that come out of the same shape "8" nipping structure, following the same steps. The "tails" of this shape "8" base form can be crossed or not, the diagonal that goes from the first bight to the second can be over or under them, and the re-tucking can be made at the near or the far bight - but the general image is the same. However, the final products/knots of this process are quite different, and they are expected to address the problem differently - i.e. more or less successfully. That was the logic of the way those 6 knots were presented. Iff, and I stress this iff, we judge that any of them is really a viable solution, and a more interesting one  than the others, then we can try to present its tying method in a more memorable way.
This is not a knot.

xarax

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2 coils-2 collars midline bends-loops
« Reply #77 on: February 10, 2012, 02:51:22 PM »
Here, I follow the thread from Reply#42-#43. The knot presented there as a midline bend, can also serve as a adjustable end-of-line loop. The same can be said for two variations of it that are presented here.
   If we want to keep the bights of the collars tightly wrapped around the penetrating ends of the main line, we must somehow entangle the ends of the attached line, at their path through the coil tube. Doing this, the bights are nipping the main line hard, they can not move apart from each other, and the main line s helical structure remains intact, however tensioned it might be.
   Of course, to entangle the ends of the attached line, we have to manipulate them carefully inside the coil tube of the main line, and this makes the tying of the mid line bends, or the loops, that are presented here more "difficult",  than when the ends were just parallel to each other, as they were at Reply#42. However, if, while we are tying those mid line bends or loops, we keep the - most simple - knots tied with the attached line in our memory as simple mental pictures, we will not make any mistake.
   I have to mention one more characteristic of those knots, that might have escaped the attention of the future reader. The helical coils, the coil tube, is winded around a core of three rope diameters, which is good because the core remains stable ( each rope line is adjacent to the other two) and the diameter is sufficiently large. We wish the curves of the main line of the mid line bend ( or the standing part of the loop ) to be as wide as possible, because this line bears the heavier loads, and it is this segment of the knot that should be watched more carefully, if we wish to somehow improve its strength.
   See the attached pictures for two variations of the 2 coils-2 collars midline bend, or end-of-line loop, with a more tightly entangled core. At the first, the helical coil of the main line travels around a fig. 9 stopper knot, and at the second around a double overhand stopper knot. I also post pictures of the internal cores, tied with the attached line,  at the same scale, so the future reader would not need to see through the ropes with his X rays vision... :)
This is not a knot.

xarax

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2 coils-2 collars midline bends-loops
« Reply #78 on: February 10, 2012, 03:00:25 PM »
   Of course, we can also use other stoppers as cores tied with the attached line, around which we will wind the helical coils of the main line. Here I have presented only two of them, but the principle reamains the same : Tie a knot where the attached line will form two tightly connected bights, and the main line will penetrate those bights, while it is wrapped around the whole knot at the same time, forming a single- or multi- collar helical structure, a coil tube.
This is not a knot.

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Midspan bends.
« Reply #79 on: February 10, 2012, 08:56:09 PM »
To the knots shown in #78, "fig.9 stopper" is a bad name,
with a different structure having claimed it already (that
structure that makes --in the same *direction*-- "one more
(half" turn than a fig.8 ).  (I'm w/o inspiration for
such a name suggestion, at the moment; sorry.)


--dl*
====

xarax

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Re: Midspan bends.
« Reply #80 on: February 10, 2012, 11:02:31 PM »
To the knots shown in #78, "fig.9 stopper" is a bad name, with a different structure having claimed it already

Yes, I know...It was just a temporary label, because I, too,  had not any inspiration for a proper name... :). I do not even like the "double overhand knot" name, for a shape "8" like knot...
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X1

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Re: Midspan bends.
« Reply #81 on: July 17, 2012, 08:53:26 PM »
   Even a "simple" double collar structure on the working end ("simpler" than the more twisted/convoluted one shown at Reply#27, (1) ) - can be linked within the helical nipping structure on the standing part in a sufficiently secure way. ( See the attached pictures for a most simple helical loop.)
   This indicates two things :
   1. That the nipping loop on the standing part is a very efficient mechanism of gripping the legs of the collar - even if this loop is not a closed ring, but a single open helical coil.
   2. That the double collar on the working end is a very efficient mechaism of distributing the tensile forces on the standing part - even if this double collar is nothing more than a simple "S" form.

1) http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3020.msg21688#msg21688