Author Topic: A satisfactory old binder  (Read 2877 times)

dmacdd

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A satisfactory old binder
« on: April 05, 2011, 05:49:16 PM »
An upside down taut line, or adjustable, hitch makes a very satisfactory binder.  It holds well. It can be loosened and tightened to enable adding or removing items from a bundle. It requires only one pass of the binding cord around the bundle.  It is tied with an end onto the bight. It is about as economical of material as a binder can be.

The taut line hitch, ABoK 1799 and ABoK 1800 (and some other ABoK numbers) is formed by tying a rolling hitch onto the standing part to form an eye knot around the object hitched to. (1799 is also known as the midshipman's hitch.)

The two versions of the rolling hitch are pictured in the attached photo. The taut line hitch may be formed with either of these variants of the rolling hitch. In each case the initial two turns of the rolling hitch are made inside the eye loop, and the final half hitch outside the eye loop.  The taut line hitch provides an adjustable loop which does not collapse when the loop and standing part are pulled away from each other, as when used to hitch a tent guy to a tent peg.

An upside down taut line hitch, shown as a binder but not named in ABoK 1230, is made with the initial two turns of the rolling hitch outside the eye loop, with the final half hitch inside the eye loop.  An upside down taut line hitch provides an adjustable loop which does not expand when ring loaded -- a binder.

In my trials with 1/8 inch (3 mm) hollow nylon braid and 550 paracord, these binders held very well. I could not detect a difference between the two versions of the rolling hitch, although various authorities say that ABoK 1735, the version of the rolling hitch in which the first two turns bind the working part as well as the standing part, should hold better when tied on cordage than ABoK 1734. The version with 1735 was considerably more fiddly to tie, and much more fiddly to dress than ABok 1734, and as I say, seemed to hold no better in these two materials.

EDIT:Replaced "taught line" by "taut line", thanks to DL, See down thread.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 06:26:14 PM by dmacdd »

knot4u

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Re: A satisfactory old binder
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2011, 04:27:26 AM »
ABOK #1230 is like a beefed up Buntline.  (Notice that Ashley shows this knot right after the Buntline at ABOK #1229.)  When I think of it like that, this knot is more attractive to me.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 04:28:21 AM by knot4u »

Dan_Lehman

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Re: A satisfactory old binder
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2011, 05:43:47 AM »
"taught line hitch"

While monofilament nylon fishline and many PP cords & ropes
are said to have "memory" --in their holding ghosts of tied knots
when untied in twists & turns put into the line--,
they know nothing : they can be taut, but not taught.

 ;)

Quote
In my trials with 1/8 inch (3 mm) hollow nylon braid and 550 paracord, these binders held very well. I could not detect a difference between the two versions of the rolling hitch, although various authorities say that ABoK 1735, the version of the rolling hitch in which the first two turns bind the working part as well as the standing part, should hold better when tied on cordage than ABoK 1734. The version with 1735 was considerably more fiddly to tie, and much more fiddly to dress than ABok 1734, and as I say, seemed to hold no better in these two materials.

The difference might become manifest in firmer cord and rope.
In some cases the bit of "dog leg" that can be put into the
hitched line aids the grip for #1735.

--dl*
====

knot4u

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Re: A satisfactory old binder
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2011, 06:42:40 AM »
I compare ABOK #1230 to Two Half Hitches.  ABOK #1230 works if pulling the standing end directly tightens the knot, like in a Buntline.  In more practical terms, ABOK #1230 is best suited for one wrap around the object.  There are other binders that are better if there are two or more wraps around the object.

Two Half Hitches can bind even if pulling the standing end does not directly tighten the knot.  For example, I often tie several wraps around the object, such as an electrical cord in my garage that is bound by a bootlace wrapped several times around the electrical cord.  The bootlace wraps are finished with a Backhand Hitch plus Two Half Hitches.  ABOK #1230 would not work well here.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 06:53:29 AM by knot4u »

dfred

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Re: A satisfactory old binder
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2011, 05:07:07 PM »
This "upside down" Taut-Line Hitch construction was discussed to some extent in another thread.  For some situations it can be quite handy indeed.  It appears under inconsistent names in ABOK as: #192 (binder, as a corn beef knot variant), #1230 (binder) , #1727(hitch), and #1994(both).   And there may be other entries showing it.

Regarding the name, there are several distinct knots called Jam or Jamming Hitch at various points in ABOK, however the name at #1994 appears to be unique, "Adjustable Jam Hitch".  That is what I tend to use for it.

The use at #192 highlights it as an extension of the Buntline: #192 is a running version of the Adjustable Jam Hitch in the same way #191 is a running Buntline Hitch -- the Corned Beef Knot.


EDIT: typos
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 05:21:01 PM by dfred »

dmacdd

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Re: A satisfactory old binder
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2011, 06:17:59 PM »
"taught line hitch"

While monofilament nylon fishline and many PP cords & ropes
are said to have "memory" --in their holding ghosts of tied knots
when untied in twists & turns put into the line--,
they know nothing : they can be taut, but not taught.

 ;)


!!!!!   LOL  
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 06:25:31 PM by dmacdd »

dmacdd

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Re: A satisfactory old binder
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2011, 06:30:07 PM »
ABOK #1230 is like a beefed up Buntline.  (Notice that Ashley shows this knot right after the Buntline at ABOK #1229.)  When I think of it like that, this knot is more attractive to me.

The buntline hitch is often described as an eye knot formed by tying an upside down clove hitch on the standing part, or by tying two half hitches upside down on the standing part.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 08:25:15 PM by dmacdd »

dmacdd

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Re: A satisfactory old binder
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2011, 08:11:55 PM »
Quote
In my trials with 1/8 inch (3 mm) hollow nylon braid and 550 paracord, these binders held very well. I could not detect a difference between the two versions of the rolling hitch, although various authorities say that ABoK 1735, the version of the rolling hitch in which the first two turns bind the working part as well as the standing part, should hold better when tied on cordage than ABoK 1734. The version with 1735 was considerably more fiddly to tie, and much more fiddly to dress than ABok 1734, and as I say, seemed to hold no better in these two materials.

The difference might become manifest in firmer cord and rope.
In some cases the bit of "dog leg" that can be put into the
hitched line aids the grip for #1735.

The two binders worked, apparently equally well, in slightly stiff 5 mm kernmantle accessory cord.
Both failed completely in stiff 6 mm accessory cord
Both failed in stiff 10 mm kernmantle dynamic climbing rope, although
they worked somewhat. the 1735 version being harder to pull open.