Author Topic: ♥gleipnir  (Read 26788 times)

Hrungnir

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Re: ♥gleipnir
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2011, 10:01:02 PM »
You can't just "weave it through the wraps", like I did in my picture.

I just tied the Xarax Binder five times how I explained above.  I tied it in the same manner on a horizontal object as well as a vertical object.

Practice.  Good luck.


There's obviously something you don't understand from my post and xaraxs quote. The tails from a Xarax binder do exit the knots nub differently from the original gleipnir. I don't know how to explain this any clearer, but that proves the complexity and how easy it is to misunderstand the tying method and complexity of the xarax binder. I assume the posted picture is one of Xaraxs, since he clearly shows what I'm trying to explain.

If the tails exit the knots nub like the original gleipnir, the xarax binder will be hard to tighten. It won't hold as well and the knots nub will twist. Xarax binder should also be difficult to untie by just pulling one of the legs.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 10:01:48 PM by Hrungnir »

knot4u

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Re: ♥gleipnir
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2011, 10:13:30 PM »
You can't just "weave it through the wraps", like I did in my picture.

I just tied the Xarax Binder five times how I explained above.  I tied it in the same manner on a horizontal object as well as a vertical object.

Practice.  Good luck.


There's obviously something you don't understand from my post and xaraxs quote. The tails from a Xarax binder do exit the knots nub differently from the original gleipnir. I don't know how to explain this any clearer, but that proves the complexity and how easy it is to misunderstand the tying method and complexity of the xarax binder. I assume the posted picture is one of Xaraxs, since he clearly shows what I'm trying to explain.

Yeah, so make sure it looks like the pic when you're tying.  Again, I tied the Xarax Binder in the manner I described and got the knot as shown in the pics.  (Note that I posted the pics here, and yes they are originally from Xarax.)

It is not difficult for me.  While tying the Xarax Binder is not exactly the same as tying the Gleipnir Binder, they're similar enough such that I don't think I need a different explanation than the one I gave above.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 10:20:35 PM by knot4u »

Hrungnir

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Re: ♥gleipnir
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2011, 10:27:22 PM »
Since it's hopless to explain with words and by reference to other peoples pictures and explanations, I've uploaded my own.


This is a correctly tied Xarax binder:


This is a wrongly tied Xarax binder:


I don't know what version you are tying knot4u, but it's easy to tie the wrong knot by the instruction "just weave it through the wraps". I did the mistake, and I thank Xarax for correcting me.

knot4u

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Re: ♥gleipnir
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2011, 11:03:04 PM »
Since it's hopless to explain with words and by reference to other peoples pictures and explanations, I've uploaded my own.


This is a correctly tied Xarax binder:


This is a wrongly tied Xarax binder:


I don't know what version you are tying knot4u, but it's easy to tie the wrong knot by the instruction "just weave it through the wraps". I did the mistake, and I thank Xarax for correcting me.

Neither of these knots look like a correctly tied Xarax Binder.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 11:03:53 PM by knot4u »

knot4u

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Re: ♥gleipnir
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2011, 11:38:30 PM »
Here is the Double Xarax Binder I have tied in the manner I described above.  I have shown the rope ends for clarity.



It's not difficult for me.  I'm sorry you had difficulty.

Hrungnir

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Re: ♥gleipnir
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2011, 12:03:57 AM »
Neither of these knots look like a correctly tied Xarax Binder.

You are right! The legs exits the knub at the top and not at the bottom. Another trap to walk into!

When tied like this, it just seems to be a reverse or upside down gleipnir.

dmacdd

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Re: ♥gleipnir
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2011, 12:16:27 AM »

Dmcadd, I don't know what you're not seeing, but the Gleipnir
most certainly DOES NOT NEED contact with the bound object,
and nips as well in mid-air --that is afterall its claim to fame,
so well holding on dubious-surfaced collections such as the
set of poles Knot4U had (he should've tied off the constrictor
with an overhand finish 'a la tying shoes, reefing (and
the clove hitch would suffice for this)).


Hmmm.... I wonder if I'm tying it correctly. I am also guilty on relying on my memory of a month or so ago for the information about mid-air security, which I should not have done. But before I go further I should ask for a reference to a correct and clear presentation of the gleipner. My own quick search just now has not yielded one I consider satisfactory.

EDIT:

I am assuming the Layhands presentation is correct:

http://www.layhands.com/Knots/Knots_Miscellaneous.htm#Gleipner

EDIT 2:

It isn't correct. The method at Layhands guarantees that the binding turns (the turns that pass around the bundle to be bound) cross and bind each other, making the knot very hard to tighten properly.

See down thread, at http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=2981.msg17770#msg17770
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 03:49:24 PM by dmacdd »

dmacdd

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Re: ♥gleipnir
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2011, 12:29:27 AM »
Equally easy to tie

Now this is wrong. Xarax binder might be just as easy as tie as the second gleipnir version presented by Dahm (sheepshank gleipnir?), but not as easy tied as the first one he represented and the most popular one.


Perhaps, since I'm not sure at the moment I'm tying the Gleipnir correctly. But I am sure the Xarax binder is very easy indeed to tie, as in the included photos.

Quote

Xarax binder need two loops. You can't just pass the working end through the loops either.


Yes you can, if you dispose the round turn around the binding turns appropriately while tying, as in the included photos.

Quote
If you do, the turnip might twist, it won't hold as good and you get the unwanted feature by release when pulling one of the legs. The working end from below has to exit the turnips at the upper part of the turnip. The upper working end has to exit the turnip at the lower part of the turnip.

In other words the ends should "embrace" inside the round turn around them, as they indeed do  when the Xarax binder is tied as in the photos below.

« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 12:31:08 AM by dmacdd »

Hrungnir

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Re: ♥gleipnir
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2011, 01:05:56 AM »
Quote from: dmacdd
Perhaps, since I'm not sure at the moment I'm tying the Gleipnir correctly. But I am sure the Xarax binder is very easy indeed to tie, as in the included photos.

You are right. The upside-down gleipnir (xarax binder) is perhaps as easy to tie as the original gleipnir. As you can see from my discussion with knot4u I've tied the xarax binder wrong, because my legs has exited the knub in the same manner as the gleipnir - making a somewhat double gleipnir - two turn gleipnir.

To my defense, I tried to reconstruct the Xarax binder after he had removed his pictures. When trying to reconstruct a knot from the memory of a picture, a lot of things can obviously wrong. The knot didn't have a name at this time, and I thought Xarax binder was the two-turn/roundturn gleipnir. Somehow Xarax binder is more like an upside-down gleipnir, but my point about the exiting tails is still valid for both gleipnir and xarax binder.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 01:08:21 AM by Hrungnir »

Korg

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Re: ♥gleipnir
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2011, 01:37:02 AM »
I've just learned the 'xarax binder' from this thread, and I went to work and used it, replaced one of the Gleipnirs on those aluminium poles.  I like it.  It looks good and does the job.  It holds.  However, it is harden to tighten down and I couldn't get it as tight as I could with the Gleipnir.  So I'd stick with the Gleipnir for those rare occasions when I have to tie up a pile of cylindrical objects, and keep the xarax binder in mind for interest.  btw, is that the name we've gone with, xarax binder?  Did he decide that name?

dmacdd

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Re: ♥gleipnir
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2011, 01:52:33 AM »
Help! I'm not sure I'm tying the Gleipnir right. Korgan says it holds tighter than the Xarax binder.  The "Gleipnir" I'm tying doesn't come close to the tightness of the Xarax binder.

I need a clear presentation of the Gleipner.

EDIT:

I will assume the very clear photos of tying the Gleipnir given by Layhands at

http://www.layhands.com/Knots/Knots_Miscellaneous.htm#Gleipner

are correct.

The above presentation seems to produce the structure specified by Gleipnir's own photo at
http://picasaweb.google.com/ardahm/Knots#5373402344759689186

« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 05:56:29 AM by dmacdd »

dmacdd

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Re: ♥gleipnir
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2011, 01:59:16 AM »
..., and keep the xarax binder in mind for interest.  btw, is that the name we've gone with, xarax binder?  Did he decide that name?

No. Xarax invented the knot.  I suggested "Xarax simple binder". Knot4u suggested "Xarax binder", which I like better.

knot4u

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Re: ♥gleipnir
« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2011, 03:42:25 AM »
While I really like the Xarax Binder, I usually find myself tying good ol' Round Turns plus Backhand Hitch instead.  I'll finish it with two or three Half Hitches, slipped if I'm feeling froggy.

dmacdd

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Re: ♥gleipnir
« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2011, 06:14:49 AM »
Thanks for the directions but I'm having a hard time exectuing the steps all the way through. Can someone post a diagram of the gleipnir and xarax binder being tied. Pictures are more friendly to my brain.lol.

Inkanyezi made a very detailed picture serie of how to tie the gleipnir in an alternative way
http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=2262.0

I cannot figure out what happens between the third and fourth photos above, or what the structure of the knot in the fourth photo is.
Quote

Mr Dahm made pictures of loosely tied gleipnirs. I learned to tie the knot by copying his pictures.
http://picasaweb.google.com/ardahm/Knots#5373402344759689186
http://picasaweb.google.com/ardahm/Knots#5373402358843674962

Link to Mr Dahms representation and instructions for the knot: http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1449.msg10063#msg10063

"Here goes my attempt at a description.  Take the rope twice around object to be tied. In the middle of the bite pinch rope and twist 270 degrees forming a loop perpendicular to the rope, with its opening parallel to the rope.  (This loop is comparable to the loops in a Sheepshank.)  Pass both bitter ends through the loop going in opposite directions.  Hold bitter ends in both hands and pull tightly.  When pulling the bitter ends apart, the two sections of rope which circumscribe the object will close on object.  On releasing tension from the two bitter ends the knot or twisted loop will squeeze the bitter ends tightly and hold fast.  I know this sounds too simple to work.  But it does."



Since this is a quote from Gleipnir himself, I now assume this is the Gleipnir.

This is not the knot specified at Layhands.

http://www.layhands.com/Knots/Knots_Miscellaneous.htm#Gleipner

The binding turns (the turns that go around the bundle being bound) in the very clear word description above do not cross each other except in the knot.  Layhands has the binding turns crossing each other on the side of the binding opposite the knot.

I attach my photos of Gleipnir's way of tying the Gleipnir.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 06:43:41 AM by dmacdd »

Andre

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Re: ♥gleipnir
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2011, 12:07:40 PM »
Hi,

I tried them both, they look good. Gleipnir and Xarax.

For this purpose, tying bundles of stuff, I use what I call the "reverse fisherman's", i just tie a fisherman's, which is my old buddy and I definitely will get through right, and I just grab both ends and  pull the knots apart instead of together. I don't think I would meet criteria for inventing a new knot with this, but it does the job.

Andre

« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 12:27:16 PM by apereira »