Author Topic: A beautiful Water bend  (Read 14387 times)

roo

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Re: A beautiful Water bend
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2011, 03:39:45 AM »
  I said that they are not designed only as fishing knots.  "an admission"  :) I admit that I can not make you understand anything, however I try !  :)
I asked you if these are supposed to be bends for rope or fishing knots.  You answered a blanket no.  You could have said yes to both.  You answered no to both.  I understand that there may be a language barrier here as you seem to be from Greece, but what precisely is the practical purpose you have in mind?

Posting on the criteria of appearances is better suited toward decorative or fancy knots. 
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roo

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Re: A beautiful Water bend
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2011, 03:50:32 PM »
but what precisely is the practical purpose you have in mind?

I do not intend to explain what purpose a knot can serve.
If you bristle about questions of practicality of a knot in a Practical Knot forum, there is a forum where this question will not arise.
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roo

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Re: A beautiful Water bend
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2011, 06:14:41 PM »
If you bristle about questions of practicality of a knot in a Practical Knot forum, there is a forum where this question will not arise.

   If you bristle about my knots not belonging here, [...snipped words being shoved in roo's mouth]
Try to look on positive side, Xarax:  Posting your "beautiful" knots in the appropriate forum will expose those knots to people who live for that kind of thing.
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SS369

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Re: A beautiful Water bend
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2011, 06:24:51 PM »
The positive side of this particular thread to me is exploring the attributes of the knot. If it happens to be attractive to the beholder fine.

What are the thoughts on its use as a bend for either rope, cord, tape or fishing line?
Let's get to that please.

SS

Hrungnir

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Re: A beautiful Water bend
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2011, 06:57:03 PM »
Not trying to be on bad terms with anyone, but roo has a point. If the knot hasn't any practical value (yet), then the Practical Knot forum is perhaps not the right place to present it. What is this knot capable of, when and how should I use it? What purpose does this knot have, and have it any advantages from knots we already know?

If the knot doesn't intend to solve any practical problems, then I must agree that it isn't a practical knot. and it isn't for the practical knots forum. If you get offended by someone calling your knot "decorative" or "fancy", then there is a forum called "knot theory" and you'll also find some similar topics in "chit chat".

Your "simple hitch ala gleipnir" has proven to be practical though. I use it very often, and it has proven its right to stay in the practical knot section.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2011, 06:59:12 PM by Hrungnir »

xarax

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Re: A beautiful Water bend
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2011, 07:51:18 PM »
   Thank you Hrungnir,

   Your view of what can be the subject of a "Practical Knots" forum is too narrow. You dismiss any experimental inquiry, any proposition for a modification, because it has not been tested in real life. If that were so, how we could discover ANYTHING new in the future ?
 
I use it very often, and it has proven its right to stay in the practical knot section.
   So, wait, for a while ! Perhaps when you will need a strong bend with wide first curves, the Water 8 bend will prove "its right to stay in the practical knot section.:) You do not know it in advance, and you could not possibly know it, right ? I have been pursuing knots that have those qualities for some time now, and I believe this is a worthy candidate.
   If you, too, have "supposed that everything so simple a nature had already being discovered" , please, think it over.  :)

    I have also to make clear that this knot, just like all the knots I have presented in this forum are "Why not" questions, not "How to" answers. For many reasons, we all like to use ready-made things and easy recipes, and we are inclined to do so more often than we should. The knots I have tied and presented in this forum do not address this need. They are more like a play with tangled ropes that may also be exploratory, or not. I try to Live Curious:)     
« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 02:46:16 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

roo

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Re: A beautiful Water bend
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2011, 08:25:45 PM »
  My opinion is that Roo has no point whatsoever, because he simply detests whatever I do or write
I don't detest you, nor do I detest what you write.  I think your "beautiful" creations are perfectly suited to the Fancy & Decorative Knot forum.

The irony in all this is that in posting so many aesthetic-oriented knots in the Practical Knots forum, you may be obscuring any truly practical knots that you have presented or may present in the future.  It's like the story of the boy who cried "wolf".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boy_Who_Cried_Wolf

P.S.  Before you look for an excuse to be offended; just because the article discusses lying does not therefore mean that I think that posting in the wrong forum constitutes lying.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 05:02:57 AM by roo »
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roo

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Re: A beautiful Water bend
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2011, 08:50:00 PM »
any truly practical knots that you have presented

??? Go to your bed and call a doctor at once ! Something is happening to you ! You have just admitted (1) that I did have presented some practical knots ! ( If my language skills are sufficient to read and understand this phrase...)
 Well, ONE would be enough for me.
  
I didn't go that far, but I'm not trying to deny the possibility either.  Any coins that I have in my pocket would be round.  That doesn't reveal the contents of my pocket, however. 
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xarax

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Re: A beautiful Water bend
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2011, 05:06:49 PM »
   I have used this Water 8 bend as a basis for a loop, in an effort to have wider first curves and a possibly stronger knot. Also, I have used it for the loop of the trucker s hitch, where this knot s asymmetry is not a disadvantage : on the contrary, it may be beneficial, because we can choose which one of the two links we will use as the link that would provide us the tail = working end that continues to the rest of the trucker s hitch mechanism.
   In the attached pictures, it is shown how we arrive at this Water 8 bend, starting from a "flat" Water bend and twisting/rotating the standing end/tail pair(s). We can twist/rotate only the one pair  4 X 180 degrees = 720 degrees clockwise (or counter-clockwise, which is the same thing), OR both pairs, each one of them 2 X 180 = 360 degrees clockwise (or counter-clockwise, which is again the same thing). At the pictures, the left, as we face it, standing end/tail pair is twisted/rotated 4 X 180 = 720 degrees counter-clockwise, and from an initial "flat" normal Water bend we arrive at the Water 8 bend shown in (1). Each picture captures a snapshot of those four successive twists/rotations.
   We can see the difference of this bend with the symmetric variation of the Water bend presented at (2), the Water X bend.There, the standing end/tail pair is twisted/rotated only 3 X 180 degrees = 540 degrees. The one and a half whole turns twist/rotation produces the symmetric Water X bend, while an additional half turn (in total, two whole turns) produces the asymmetric Water 8 bend.

1) http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=2893.msg17262#msg17262
2) http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=2154.msg15144#msg15144  
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 05:22:41 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

xarax

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Re: A beautiful Water bend
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2011, 09:28:00 PM »
   I am very curious about this simple, strange nevertheless bend: Which one of the two - quite different, but of equally wide first curves - link is going to break first, in a maximal loading ? Is the "8" shaped link more resistant to tension than the "0" shaped one? I have no idea ! That is a measure of ignorance about how exactly knots are behaving, and an indication of how many things are still unknown, about those sinple static rope machines... If any interested reader has the curiosity, the proper equipment and performs some relevant tests, let me know the results, please.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2011, 11:22:56 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.