Author Topic: Running Zeppelin or Zeppelin Noose  (Read 2858 times)

oneiros

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Running Zeppelin or Zeppelin Noose
« on: July 14, 2011, 01:11:38 AM »
After a moment's thought about the running bowline, it is obvious that any loop, not just the bowline, would serve to make a similar noose.

Inspired by this line of thinking, I decided to make a noose with one my favorite loops, the Zeppelin Loop.

Of course, the most obvious way to tie such a noose would be to simply tie the regular Zeppelin loop and slip it over the standing end.

Another way of tying it, which does not require access to the standing standing end, is illustrated in the attached image.

Notice that if the wrap around the standing part illustrated in steps 1 through 3 is omitted, you'd simply wind up with the ordinary Zeppelin loop.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 01:12:44 AM by oneiros »

roo

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Re: Running Zeppelin or Zeppelin Noose
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2011, 01:33:17 AM »
Have you tried just pushing/pulling a bight of rope through the fixed loop?  This will cause some residual torsion in the original knot form, but that can be massaged out.
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oneiros

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Re: Running Zeppelin or Zeppelin Noose
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2011, 01:38:01 AM »
Thanks for the infinitely more elegant solution!

knot4u

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Re: Running Zeppelin or Zeppelin Noose
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2011, 01:49:10 AM »
Of course, the most obvious way to tie such a noose would be to simply tie the regular Zeppelin loop and slip it over the standing end.

Oneiros, didn't you already described what Roo pointed out?  ???

oneiros

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Re: Running Zeppelin or Zeppelin Noose
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2011, 01:53:10 AM »
Of course, the most obvious way to tie such a noose would be to simply tie the regular Zeppelin loop and slip it over the standing end.

Oneiros, didn't you already described what Roo pointed out?  ???

Nope.  What I described as "the most obvious way" required access to the standing end.  Roo's solution required only a bight.

Perhaps the confusion regarding the difference between these two ways of tying rests in my use of the term "standing end".  By that term I am referring to the the very end of the standing part.  That's what I suggested slipping the loop around.  Roo's way, by contrast, does not require access to the very end, just the standing part nearest the loop.

Of course, they end up with the same noose, but the means of tying them are different.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 01:58:30 AM by oneiros »

oneiros

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Re: Running Zeppelin or Zeppelin Noose
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2011, 02:27:54 AM »
Thinking about this a little longer, I would like to offer some practical distinctions between the various means of tying the Running Zeppelin or Zeppelin Noose.

First, a bit of nomenclature to distinguish the three methods of tying this knot:

  Alpha - tying by slipping the loop over the standing end

  Beta - tying the way illustrated in the image attached to the first post above

  Gamma - Roo's way of tying, using a bight

As has been noted before, the Alpha method would require access to the standing end.

Gamma would require having on hand the end of whatever object you'd want to slip the noose around.

Beta, by contrast, requires neither.  It could be tied even around a ring, which obviously has no ends.  Beta is, effectively, a method of hitching the Zeppelin Loop to its own standing part, while (potentially) hitching the resulting noose around the object the noose is to be tied around.  Gamma, on the other hand, could be slipped around that object only after it's tied.

I wonder if we could coin some standard terminology for these distinctions, which also hold for other knots.  Or perhaps there are already standard terms for them that I am not aware of.  Does anyone here know of such terms?
« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 02:53:36 AM by oneiros »

knot4u

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Re: Running Zeppelin or Zeppelin Noose
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2011, 03:03:31 AM »
I mean no offense to you, Oneiros, but this thread has got to be among the top 10 obvious threads on this site.  :-\
« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 03:36:30 AM by knot4u »

roo

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Re: Running Zeppelin or Zeppelin Noose
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2011, 06:20:44 AM »
I mean no offense to you, Oneiros, but this thread has got to be among the top 10 obvious threads on this site.  :-\
C'mon now.  Everyone has a first time for discovering new ideas. 
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