Author Topic: The best three-strand terminal knot for rope for japanese bondage (shibari)?  (Read 18173 times)

ibu

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I'm looking for the best three-strand terminal knot for rope for japanese bondage (shibari).

Details:

purposejapanese bondage (shibari)
rope fiberjute
rope diameter5-6mm
rope typethree-strand
whippingno [1]
knot typethree-strand terminal knot
knot durabilityhigh [2]
knot sizebulkier than ABoK#684, not bulkier than ABoK#693 [3]
outcoming strandsclosely together [4]

[1] for esthetic reasons

[2] even without a whipping and with washing in a machine

[3] it allows to join another rope fast and easily

[4] all strands should form kind of a brush

The traditional terminal knot on ropes for shibari is an overhand knot.
An alternative terminal knot which one could see often is ABoK#684 (two wall knots).

Disadvantages of ABoK#684:
It's volume is not large enough. It works to join another rope, but it would be nicer to have a little more volume. Not much more. Just a little.
The stability during days or weeks of usage or after washing the rope is not the best.

Which three-strand terminal knot, please, do you recommend (and why)?

Thanks a lot.
(And sorry for my poor English.)

I found one three-strand terminal knot, which is called "thistle knot" by the photographer:
http://www.bindme.nl/threeends2.jpg

This name does not exist in the ABoK.

Do you know anything about a knot with this name?
« Last Edit: January 31, 2011, 06:07:59 PM by ibu »

Rrok007

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Re: The best terminal knot for rope for japanese bondage (shibari)?
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2011, 02:57:14 PM »
Man rope knot or matthew walker knot.

ibu

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Re: The best terminal knot for rope for japanese bondage (shibari)?
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2011, 03:51:51 PM »
Man rope knot
ABoK#847 ?

matthew walker knot.
ABoK#683, right?

Which features mark this terminal knot for you as the best terminal knot?
Which advantages do you see, comparing it to others, please?

SS369

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Re: The best terminal knot for rope for japanese bondage (shibari)?
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2011, 04:17:59 PM »
Hi ibu and welcome.

For a stopper/terminal knot the best that comes to my mind is the Ashley's Stopper Knot or Oysterman's Stopper or ABOK #526.
It is bulky enough for most any task of stoppering and so very easy to tie. Dress it tightly and I surmise it will pass your tests.

If it needed to be made "permanent" I would think you could pass a thread through it.

SS

ibu

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Re: The best terminal knot for rope for japanese bondage (shibari)?
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2011, 04:29:29 PM »


For a stopper/terminal knot the best that comes to my mind is the Ashley's Stopper Knot or Oysterman's Stopper or ABOK #526.
Thanks for your hint.

But the (single-strand) #526 is to bulky.

I'm looking for a multi-strand terminal knot.

Rrok007

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Re: The best terminal knot for rope for japanese bondage (shibari)?
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2011, 06:30:34 PM »
Man rope knot
ABoK#847 ?

matthew walker knot.
ABoK#683, right?

Which features mark this terminal knot for you as the best terminal knot?
Which advantages do you see, comparing it to others, please?


Well, I'm know what you're looking for because I have similar interests. The advantage is that they both look nice, they aren't bulky, and they prevent unravelling.
SS, just so that you know, ibu's looking more for a knot to finish the ends, not an actual stopper knot. Hence his use of "terminal". With Shbari, you want a knot at the ends of the rope to prevent unravelling more than to prevent it from sliding through an opening.
I am curious why whipping the ends its not an option? Are you looking to have some fraying/unravelling at the ends for a tasselled look?

SS369

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The Footrope knot seems best of class to me now that I know that it is not a stopper knot that is needed. The strands exit the knot in a bundle that could be left to frizz.

Searching for the above mentioned "thistle knot" in Google images will take you to a few sites that deal with this subject and I'll just refrain from posting direct links. ;-)


I think this will be better to serve the forum in the Decorative section.

SS
« Last Edit: January 31, 2011, 07:45:43 PM by SS369 »

ibu

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Re: The best terminal knot for rope for japanese bondage (shibari)?
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2011, 07:51:38 PM »
Quote from: Rrok007
[ABoK#847 and ABoK#683]The advantage is that they both look nice, they aren't bulky, and they prevent unravelling.
I still do not know, which knot do you mean with "Man rope knot". There are several. The #847 is (a lot to) bulky.
The #683 is nice, yes.
But it seems it is quite difficult to form it nicely.
And to be honest, I prefer the appearance of the #693 (Diamond Knot) - which is difficult to form as well.

I mentioned the "thistle knot" with the hope, there will be some comments on it.
I still do not know how it is to bind. But I suppose it is a combination of one crown and one following wall.
That combination looks as nice as the #693, is easier to bind and the outcoming strands are more closely together.

In shibari the end knots have two functions: Prevention of unravelling and stopping a joined rope.
(When I find a picture of this type of join, I will post it.)


Quote from: Rrok007
I am curious why whipping the ends its not an option? Are you looking to have some fraying/unravelling at the ends for a tasselled look?
Mainly it is my personal esthetic decision.
But it seems that - as well - in traditionel shibari they will never use whippings.

And yes, I like the tasselled look of the strands (2cm) behind a terminal knot.

ibu

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The Footrope knot seems best of class to me now that I know that it is not a stopper knot that is needed.
Rrok007 missunderstood me.

The knot has two functions: prevention of unravelling and stopping.

If anyone knows, if the "thistle knot" has a number in the ABoK, please let me know.

If anyone finds a clear and explaining picture of the knot ...
« Last Edit: January 31, 2011, 09:47:21 PM by ibu »

SS369

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Looking into the "thistle knot" further it seems that it is a Footrope knot after all.
Here is a link to a site that has a good graphic of the tying of it.  http://www.ropeworks.biz/archive/footrope.html

Basically a crown knot with a wall knot under it around the rope and then tuck the ends through the center of the crown knot and dress tightly.

Hope this helps you.

SS

ibu

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Looking into the "thistle knot" further it seems that it is a Footrope knot after all.
Here is a link to a site that has a good graphic of the tying of it.  http://www.ropeworks.biz/archive/footrope.html
Thanks a lot. :)
That's exactly what I supposed, the knot is tied - and what I tried here.

It is equivalent to ABoK#696. In the Ashley the way to bind it is different to the way which is shown on the website "ropeworks.biz". But the result is the same.

What do you think about the durability of this knot - compared to other terminal knots of equal bulkiness?


« Last Edit: January 31, 2011, 10:34:22 PM by ibu »

SS369

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You're welcome ibu,

I personally think the durability is very high, but that depends on the severity of abuse to it.
Dressing it incrementally tight will work best

If it would not detract from the look or the function, using a sealer/coating (varnish or something else) could improve the longevity.

SS

ibu

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@SS369

Varnish does not fit to the esthetic of the whole thing (IMHO).

Rrok007

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The Footrope knot seems best of class to me now that I know that it is not a stopper knot that is needed.
Rrok007 missunderstood me.

The knot has two functions: prevention of unravelling and stopping.

If anyone knows, if the "thistle knot" has a number in the ABoK, please let me know.

If anyone finds a clear and explaining picture of the knot ...



Sorry about that. I'm curious though, what style are you practicing? Typically when I've seen reference to "shibari" in reference to eastern styles,  it tends towars fewer "knots" in the sense of things like overhand and square knots and more reliant on what would be more of a friction wrap.

ibu

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Quote from: Rrok007
I'm curious though, what style are you practicing?
I'm a beginner. At three different places I learned the same from three different longtime practioners of shibari kinbaku (japanese bondage):
The knots at the end are neccessary to join the next rope. Then their function is a stopper knot.

I'm sorry I could not find a photo of that very simple join. If I will find one, I will post a link.

Quote from: Rrok007
Typically when I've seen reference to "shibari" in reference to eastern styles,  it tends towars fewer "knots" in the sense of things like overhand and square knots
That's exactly my cognition.