Author Topic: new stopper knot ???  (Read 9303 times)

KnotNow!

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 368
  • IGKT-PAB PAST PRESIDENT
Re: new stopper knot ???
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2006, 08:43:04 AM »
How will we know without a visual image?  Several, if that is what it takes.  Life is hard.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2006, 08:44:26 AM by PABPRES »
ROY S. CHAPMAN, IGKT-PAB BOARD.

bazz

  • Guest
Re: new stopper knot ???
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2006, 02:37:59 PM »
How do All,

Scott/ Skellyog,

If you are unable to draw or photograph your knot for any reason, you could send a submission to Nigel Harding, the Guild Secretary, for the attention of The New Knot Claims Board?(someone correct me if I have the wrong title there).
You should include a description, and or diagram of your knot along with samples of the knot tied properly, and also a loose version for easier understanding of the structure, not forgetting to add a proposed name, and possible uses for your knot.


It may be worth sending an email to confirm you are sending your material to the right place,

Guild Secretary: Nigel Harding,  secretary@igkt.net

Hope this helps,
Barry ;)

Dan_Lehman

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3956
Re: new stopper knot ???
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2006, 09:48:17 PM »
"Is it *new*?"

What's "new" 2 U ?
I'll guess that it's not appeared in literature, but who can have searched all that
"literature" encompasses?!  Has anyone ever previously tied it?!  Again, quite an
impossible thing to say.
It's practically new, to me.

Quote
Hi Scott,
 Rereading the posts this AM I sure hope you can post a drawing or photo or two.

Re-reading my description, I'm sure that you can work it out:  you have a left
hand, last time I looked; you know the end from the SPart; you know how to
tie a Stevedore stopper, etc.--the instructions are as clear as a picture would be
(and maybe more so, except by a series of step-by-step images)!  Just get your dang
hands off of the keyboard sending plaintive notes demanding images!  ;D

Quote
 Also I am puzzled where this stopper will fit in the progression of existing stoppers.  Start with an ovdrhand knot as the smallest and most primitive,...

AND--importantly(!!)--the only one that can be tied & set snug against something!

Quote
.. next a figure 8 stopper for a larger diamater and more easily untied stopper,

I don't give it much edge on the former--nil, in practical terms.

Quote
then the stevedore (aka longshoreman) stopper for hardly more bulk than the fig 8 but of long established utility,

Again, not so much extra bulk at its stopper face, but more material & heft.
As for "longshoreman" & "long established", can you justify this assertion?
--as it's contrary CLDay's credit of the name to the COMPANY "Stevedore" who
made/sold ropes, and NOT to the supposed users of the same name.  Again,
overlooked for this knot is that its turns provide extra grip to the SPart and
hence security when slack--preventing loosening, i.e. (unlike the preceding two).

Quote
then ... Ashley's stopper... which bulks more diameter than the previous 4 and finally Brion Toss's Sink Stopper.

Ashley's has a wonderful face, which needs to be set well tight at the point
where the Overhand noose is formed, before drawing that down upon the end.
The Sink Stopper is more a joke than any improvement or enlargement, as the
meander the end takes to be nipped makes it weak against pressure.  For a truly
grande stopper, one can tie Ashley's using a bight (hence, doubled material),
with appropriate deviation--i.e., begin the doubling/twin parts at the Overhand
component.  Unlike Ashley's tying, this knot can be set well tight (tightening
the twin'd Overhand) on tying, with no need for all that "working".

I've seen many stoppers in commercial-fishing gear, where presumably an Overhand
is seconded by another Overhand/half-hitch tying, and which can capsize into
different forms (e.g., into a sort of Reef or into 2HHitches around air); the point
seems to be both bulk & security--longterm--; sometimes a hog ring enforces
the latter.  I'm disappointed and a bit surprised to NOT see Ashley's stopper,
which afterall has appeared in print, and is quite a quick thing to tie; but the
proper tying method hasn't been described, insofar as I've seen, and maybe that
has led folks to misjudge the knot's qualities (though I'd think not).  Really,
to have quick-tying, security, AND broad face, with such economy of material,
recommends the knot to usage, and yet ... ?!

Quote
Where would you suggest "Scotts Stopper" fits in the progression?  Since I am still unable to follow the description (my fault as ...

You're just tired and not trying (or stargazing)!
Scott's Stopper makes for a large, oblong knot, more easily untied than most,
I think; more tedious to tie, dress, & set, too, alas.  And I prefer the dressing
that gets the SPart to come out mid-turns (just by rather crudely overlaying it
at the desired position).

Cheers,
--dl*
====
« Last Edit: January 24, 2006, 06:55:26 PM by Dan_Lehman »

roo

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1857
    • The Notable Knot Index
Re: new stopper knot ???
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2006, 11:27:22 PM »
Text and graphics are complementary, not competitive, parts of communication.  They both should be used as clearly and concisely as possible.

I once heard a writing professor say that the biggest downfall of his students was their inability or disinclination to use graphics with their writing.
If you wish to add a troll to your ignore list, click "Profile" then "Buddies/Ignore List".


seabasedm

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: new stopper knot ???
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2006, 04:14:19 PM »
        Hay Dan, I think you have it figured out,maybe you can send a drawing or pic,and I'll approve it.


                                                                Scott
seabase DM

Dan_Lehman

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3956
Re: new stopper knot ???
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2006, 09:26:13 AM »
Words HAVE worked:  il a fait que j'ai e'crit--voila!  [roughly put, maybe very so :-]

see photographies here

::)

roo

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1857
    • The Notable Knot Index
Re: new stopper knot ???
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2006, 12:06:34 AM »
Quote


see photographies here



If you subtract a few coils from the knot in the images and roll the stopper knot as if were being loaded, it would seem to be just an overhand, double overhand, or triple overhand knot, depending on how many coils or wraps are subtracted.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2006, 12:09:00 AM by roo »
If you wish to add a troll to your ignore list, click "Profile" then "Buddies/Ignore List".


Dan_Lehman

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3956
Re: new stopper knot ???
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2006, 02:20:27 AM »
Quote
If ...  it would seem to be just an overhand, double overhand, or triple overhand knot, depending on how many coils or wraps are subtracted.

Of course:  as noted above, it can be tied by a dressing of the Anchor hitch.

(It's giving me some ideas!)


;)

nautile

  • Exp. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 181
  • G'day to you from France
Re: new stopper knot ???
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2006, 04:56:26 PM »
You can see a diagram of Scott's stopper on Dan_Lehman method by clicking here


xxxxxxxxx

This structural diagram can be used in making a litlle "genetic engineering" using a transposition : End become 'Spart and 'Spart become End : just use the diagram in reverse by clicking here


Of course these identical Structures give  TWO different geometry outcome therefore 2  different knots from the point of view of the everyday 3D world. (Structure = the ordely arrangement in sequence of the crossings H&L  and nothing else).
xxxxxxxxx


In the "Original" one 'Spart is perpendicular to the thickness of the "coils serie" in the "Reverse" it is in "alignment with it.
So they will not "function" the same , Hey Dan_Lehman!

The "original" give you a "T" handle" and the "reverse a "I" handle ( 'Spart being the reference )

Nevertheless if it is only a thick stopper you want the "reverse" is IMO much more easy to dress as it comes almost dressed from its laying.

scott

  • Guest
Re: new stopper knot ???
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2006, 05:56:38 PM »
   you guyes got it.I have seen a knot simmelur to this but it was in line.even a loop.the loop looked like a hangmans noos but the working end adjusted the loop not the standing end.but I cant remember the name.
OK I'll try again.lol.   the other knot that I cant remember the name of.
    start with standing end in left hand and standing end to the left.bitter end running from left to right.now wrap line in coils back over itself moving back to the left.
make as many coiles as you please,about 4 to 7.now feed bitter end down through the coils along the standing part and out the other end of the knot to the right.and dress.when finnished it will look like a line with coiles then the line just comes out the other end.If making the loop,just push a loop through insted of pushing the line end through.I have learnd my knots from the internet.and if I didnt bookmark the page then most time I have lost it.there are two other knots that I have seen on knot pages that the auther did not know the name of.both were loops.maybe nex time.

                                                         arrowhead whittler