Author Topic: Whippings?  (Read 20008 times)

Bookerman

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Re: Whippings?
« Reply #30 on: March 18, 2011, 10:19:35 PM »
Sorry, Dan. I won't be using the multiple-strangle knot + sailor's whipping finish too complicated and too many tools (2 x pliers, forceps).  All I need for the palm-and-needle whipping is my roll of whipping twine, sailmaker's palm, needle and knife. The needles get stowed under the bill of my ball cap and everything else I stow on my square-knotted belt where it's readily at hand for whippings or mousings as we rig up the ship.
Don Booker
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www.tallshipsadventure.org

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Whippings?
« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2011, 06:25:51 AM »
Sorry, Dan. I won't be using the multiple-strangle knot + sailor's whipping finish
too complicated and too many tools (2 x pliers, forceps).

 ???

That's funny misreading of what I took some time to explain:
that in fact neither forceps nor pliers (and just one of either)
were needed --substituting, respectively, some other twine
and just something hard (or just live without distributing
the tension forcibly; it might work its way there in time).

But most people have the tools I mentioned; fewer, a palm
and needle which are expressly for such a limited use.
There are many ways to skin this cat, but my main point
was to question the oft'-asserted superiority of palm-&-needle,
as though somehow other whippings were falling short.
(I mostly do not make two whippings.)


Attached is a photo of some other novel whippings
--with some kind of flimsy red flat stuff, more of green
baling twine (a few wraps of more substantial quantity
of the fibres), and for the heck of it the use of binding
plastic tape (!), all on a poly-Dac hawser.  No application
for the Good Housekeeping seal of approval was harmed
in the process.
 :D

--dl*
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[Inkanyezi] gone

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Re: Whippings?
« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2011, 12:37:44 PM »
Of course around the shores of the world one could find just any odd way of trying to keep rope from unraveling, as well as scores of examples of failing to do so. There are occasions when I have to do a quick fix temporarily, and in those cases I mostly use just one double constrictor, which I pull as tight as possible with available means. The material might be a yarn from the same Irish pennant, and tools can be just anything that comes at hand, cutlery, sticks, screwdriver or whatever.

But as a rule, I do it only as a makeshift measure, intending to do it right when I have the time and right tools at hand. I never had to do anything like that on my own lines, but a few times I have done it with salvaged stuff or on other people's lines. I don't always carry palm and needle, so such a temporary measure might be taken now and then when I go sailing with other people in their boats.

I would never do anything more laborious than the double constrictor for a makeshift whipping.
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Dan_Lehman

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Re: Whippings?
« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2011, 06:50:55 AM »
... temporarily, and in those cases I mostly use just one double constrictor, which I pull as tight as possible with available means. The material might be ...

The whipping needs to fit the material at hand in such
cases.  I think that multiple-wrap whippings such as the
strangle variation I use and multiple constrictors require
a relatively strong & slick material, to be able to be hauled
tight within wraps.  Frictive material will not *flow* well,
and if it's not strong, expect breakage.  For such material,
a French whipping, which pulls tight & locks each
individual wrap (I sometimes try alternating half hitches
with overhands), can be more effective.

Quote
But as a rule, I do it only as a makeshift measure, intending to do it right when I have the time and right tools at hand.

Which begs the question as to what makes right !
I find my whippings done right, along with some done in
some other-handed quality  :D  --but that's a cost of experimentation
and learning, and ... "variety is the spice of life", recall.

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[Inkanyezi] gone

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Re: Whippings?
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2011, 02:34:50 AM »

But as a rule, I do it only as a makeshift measure, intending to do it right when I have the time and right tools at hand.


Which begs the question as to what makes right !


I think the answer might be a bit recursive, pointing to the first post in this thread.
http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=2225.msg15607#msg15607

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Bob Thrun

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Re: Whippings?
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2011, 06:18:58 AM »
I usually do not bother with whippings.  I do not like frizzed ends.  With nylon, polyester, polypropylene, and polyethylene, I melt the ends.  I try to apply heat slowly so that the melted surface is thick.  I melt back about one rope diameter from the end.  I shape the material while it is still soft so that I do not have a ball on the end.  When I cut a rope, I fuse the surface where I want to cut, make the cut, and then fuse the exposed fibers at the end.

For fibers that do not melt, I work epoxy or superglue into the cord and then make the cut.  When I shorten shoelaces and want to get a tight, round aglet like the factory puts on, I work in some epoxy where I want the cut and put some shrink tubing over it.  I cut away the shrink tubing after the epoxy has set.

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Whippings?
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2011, 05:01:53 PM »

But as a rule, I do it only as a makeshift measure, intending to do it right when I have the time and right tools at hand.


Which begs the question as to what makes right !


I think the answer might be a bit recursive, pointing to the first post in this thread.

That's not an answer, but the question above, begging for the answer!
Let me re-phrase, then : What is the rationale for regarding the
palm-&-needle whipping as the only correct one?


I take note of the longevity of one (or most)) of your whippings;
but mine, too, endure (hardly with any great usage that might put
them to test --but what would that be?  (no kiddie pinkies are going
to have the slightest effect (beyond gunking them w/food residue)) ).
Mine are much tighter than other whippings; the nylon monofilament
whippings can be like heat-shrunken fitting.
The making of the whipping via my advocated method is simpler,
requiring no tools (but benefiting from those mentioned previously);
and for laid rope, the bury of the double overhand twisting fits nicely
into the lay (w/appropriately sized material; otherwise, go against it,
for binding friction).

Maybe I need to make my multiple-strangle+sailor's-finish whipping
bigger?  --maybe toss in a couple Thumbs-UP graphics!   :D

--dl*
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ps:  I left the bit of pinkish whipping, top, in this crop of an earlier-posted
photo; it is Ashley's #1253, which I find more stable, more resistant to
being rubbed into deformation.

[Inkanyezi] gone

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Re: Whippings?
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2011, 03:35:56 PM »

But as a rule, I do it only as a makeshift measure, intending to do it right when I have the time and right tools at hand.


Which begs the question as to what makes right !


I think the answer might be a bit recursive, pointing to the first post in this thread.

That's not an answer, but the question above, begging for the answer!
Let me re-phrase, then : What is the rationale for regarding the
palm-&-needle whipping as the only correct one?


I think our difference here is in the realm of opinions. Mine was declared at the start of the thread.

There is in my opinion only one whipping that merits its name, and that's the palm and needle whipping,

I also have had bad experience with whippings that were not sewn and eventually came loose.

Quote from: Dan Lehman
I take note of the longevity of one (or most)) of your whippings;
but mine, too, endure

And that I think is the better answer. A double constrictor might hold for the trip, but it is not expected to endure through years of service, while a well done palm and needle whipping is very unlikely to fail at any time. Moreover, as it does not give all the way to failure when it is worn, but only a bit at a time, it can easily be inspected for wear and replaced when needed, I have replaced worn whippings a few times, before failure. When the frappings are worn out, it is time to replace the whipping. It won't come loose when only one of the frappings is lost, but it is a sign of wear that should not be ignored.

The thing is that a palm and needle whipping will endure really hard service through many years.

I also object to the practice of fusing, for the same reasons as Brion Toss. The sharp and hard edges of a cracked fusing are not easy on the hands, neither is molten synthetic fibre when you try to shape it. I have treated burns that resulted from the practice of fusing. The little brush that sticks out of a whipping is not ugly, and it is soft to the touch and does not impede reeving. Fusings will not endure the rough handling that a palm and needle whipping can withstand. For these reasons, I cut off the fused part when I have put a good whipping on the end of the rope.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2011, 04:00:53 PM by Inkanyezi »
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