Author Topic: The Carrick bend : A simple picture and a rule to tie it.  (Read 11968 times)

Sweeney

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Re: The Carrick bend : A simple picture and a rule to tie it.
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2010, 07:45:19 PM »
When we cleaned up the logo about a year ago there was, I recall, some discussion about whether the depiction was a closed carrick ie no ends or a whether the ends should be identifiable. Looked at carefully it should be clear that this is not a closed carrick as the ends appear opposite each other (I admit this is difficult to see on a small image). I have added an enlargement of the part of the logo to show the ends more clearly. I'm not sure that adds much to the sum of human knowledge but ........

Barry
 
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 07:48:07 PM by Sweeney »

DerekSmith

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Re: The Carrick bend : A simple picture and a rule to tie it.
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2010, 09:39:42 PM »
Detail well argued Barry.

OK, so our logo is a Carrick MAT.

Makes it quite awkward when I try to argue that a Carrick Mat is a weave and not a knot, and the International Guild of Knot Tyers has a Mat for its logo instead of a knot.

Ho Hum, the mountain just got higher and further...   history brings so much baggage with it.  I guess that is why evolution is so damned fallible and why fields like chemistry felt they needed to wipe the slate clean before they could progress with an intelligent nomenclature.

with apologies to Xarax for the detour.

Derek

dmacdd

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Re: The Carrick bend : A simple picture and a rule to tie it.
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2011, 02:58:18 AM »
Ink has a tying a method on his website that has put the Carrick Bend on my short list.  The method does take practice, but it has been easy for me to remember and works every time.  I have reduced his tying method down to a single diagram from his sight.  It works for me.  


I learned the Carrick bend 47 years ago when I was 22. I have remembered it since then without a detailed visualization of the knot. If I have to verify that a Carrick bend tied by someone else is an instance of ABoK 1439, I tie one of my own. My memory of it is entirely muscle memory, as was advised by the little book I learned it from, the name of which I cannot remember.   It was taught to me with pictures, but with no emphasis on the form of the finished knot, only the process of making it.  I have created pictures explaining the method , I hope with didactic effectiveness, at http://davidmdelaney.com/carrick-bend/carrick-bend-1439.html. A striking aspect of the method is that the first six of twelve pictures appearing in the very detailed pictorial explanation are identical to those that would be useful in teaching the sailor's usual way of making a bowline.

[Inkanyezi] gone

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Re: The Carrick bend : A simple picture and a rule to tie it.
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2011, 02:19:44 PM »
/.../ My memory of it is entirely muscle memory, as was advised by the little book I learned it from /.../

I cannot but agree. We now have three methods that can rely mainly or entirely on "muscle memory": The Wave, mine and now this last one. The advantage is that memorizing the pattern is not needed to tie the knot correctly, but only remembering the way of tying it. It is useful in the process of learning to check the pattern, but in the actual situation of tying, you haven't buried it into your body's memory if you need to check the pattern. The correct tying method, whichever you use, results in the correct pattern, which is only an aid when learning to tie the knot. Once the method is learned and well rehearsed, you may as well forget the pattern, still being able to tie the knot anyway.

I think too much emphasize has been put on the pattern, to such a degree, that many people don't even know how to work the knot into its final shape, and several knot books also omit this crucial part of the tying process. The finished knot is something completely different than the pattern that is always emphasized. Contrary to popular belief, it is not a knot prone to capsize; its "capsizing" is the final step in its making, it "capsizes" easily and shall do so, to attain it's final stable form, from which it will not, and cannot, capsize.

And as stated. verifying the knot is not easy, if you have to, it may be simpler to untie it and tie it again the way you know is correct. This might be regarded as a drawback, but on the other hand, there are also other reliable knots that are equally difficult to verify just by looking at them.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2011, 02:21:31 PM by Inkanyezi »
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