Author Topic: 9/11 knot  (Read 8077 times)

Joe McNicholas

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9/11 knot
« on: December 04, 2010, 04:54:10 AM »
Here is a celtic knot. With roman numerals lX = 9 and Xl = 11.
It stops your flashlight from rolling. - Joe  :)

« Last Edit: December 04, 2010, 05:05:00 AM by Joe McNicholas »

Joe McNicholas

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Re: 9/11 knot
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2010, 05:45:34 AM »
Knot to be confused with the 21 & 31 pencil knot (31knot shown).  :D

Rrok007

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Re: 9/11 knot
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2010, 09:19:36 AM »
You know, typically I try not to rant online, especially when I'm a junior. It's generally pointless. I have to ask though, could you possibly have made a more tasteless post without resorting to porn or profanity?
I know I should have known better to read this, but really...? First off, you post a subject that's going to strike a chord with us Americans by referring to a significant date. Then you post pictures of a binding that has nothing to do with that date aside from being the roman writing of those numbers. Then there's the fact that you call it a "celtic" knot representation of roman numbers. Given the history between the celts and the romans, again, poor taste.

And you didn't even provide directions on how to do these "ties", which look like nothing more than loop and crossovers of those flat wide rubber bands.

Joe McNicholas

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Re: 9/11 knot
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2010, 02:30:16 PM »
I did not mean any disrespect.  Sorry.   I live & work in Philadelphia for the government.

I was just wrapping a rubber band around a pen.

Directions are simply over then under ect... Repeat. Joe

Joe McNicholas

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Re: 9/11 knot
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2010, 12:54:08 AM »
I rotated the pencil 90? and removed the pencil expanding the first two crossovers 60? clockwise(cw) and the smallest two crossovers counterclockwise(ccw). 60?.  to form the Celtic Rose. - Joe

Lasse_C

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Re: 9/11 knot
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2010, 11:11:47 PM »
Actually, I have to agree with Rrok007.
Since I am Swedish I am not nearly as sensitive about 9/11 as Americans, but I also find the title of the subject a display of quite poor taste. It is obviously chosen just to attract attention and, perhaps, to be provocative.

As for the subject itself...
This forum is focused on knot tying. To call wrapping rubber bands around a pen and a flashlight knot tying (granted that the wrapping is done in a regular pattern) is, IMHO, overstretching the definition.

If this subject and its contents were done while you were at work, your employer needs to find more for you to do.
If it was done on your own time you appear to have too much free time.

Lasse C

« Last Edit: December 15, 2010, 12:11:16 AM by Lasse_C »

KnotMe

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Re: 9/11 knot
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2010, 05:22:11 AM »
Canuck here, not offended by the subject.  Joe doesn't seem like a troll, and a quick check of previous posts doesn't show a pattern of inflammatory topic promotion...

Not really seeing the Celtic here though.

You can "tie" a lark's head with an elastic band though so there is crossover there somewhere.

Maybe we can rescue (or divert) this thread with an exploration of knots that can be tied with a closed loop (unless the lark's head/cow hitch is it).  Unless, of course, one doesn't consider hitches to be knots at all...?

Joe McNicholas

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Re: 9/11 knot
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2010, 08:35:17 AM »
I have plenty of free time.  This is the busy season at work.  According to mathmaticians you can not tie a knot in a closed loop.  So this might be the exception that makes the rule.

A hitch is a temporary knot. -Joe

Lasse_C

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Re: 9/11 knot
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2010, 09:34:46 AM »
According to mathmaticians you can not tie a knot in a closed loop.
 
And I am told that according to mathematicians a bumble bee is not able to fly, either... ::)
I agree with Carol: Let us discuss which knots (more complicated than mere wrapping, that is...  ;D) can be tied in a closed loop, because many knots can - the mathematicians can say whatever they want about that. For example, I have several times tied a constrictor in a loop and used the loop for suspending the object. No problem.

Lasse C

DerekSmith

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Re: 9/11 knot
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2010, 01:18:10 PM »
I have plenty of free time.  This is the busy season at work.  According to mathmaticians you can not tie a knot in a closed loop.  So this might be the exception that makes the rule.

A hitch is a temporary knot. -Joe

Hi Joe - mathematicians are right, you cannot tie a theoretical knot in a closed loop.  In addition, you cannot tie a real knot in a loop unless you a) make part of the lop into a doubled strand and make/finish the knot with this or b) incorporate a second object such as another piece of cord (making a bend) or an essentially rigid object (making a hitch).

Note -  a Hitch is NOT a temporary knot (although an important property of knots is their ability to be untied) - a Hitch is a binding to another object (essentially a rigid one).  There are a significant number of hitches which self lock so tightly that they are essentially permanent.

Derek

DerekSmith

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Re: 9/11 knot
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2010, 01:30:41 PM »
snip...
As for the subject itself...
This forum is focused on knot tying. To call wrapping rubber bands around a pen and a flashlight knot tying (granted that the wrapping is done in a regular pattern) is, IMHO, overstretching the definition.
snip...

Lasse C

A rubber band (or a bungee cord or high modulus climbing rope) is a form of 'cordage'
If it had been a knot, would it matter what it had been tied around?  Many respected 'knotters' in the guild tie cordage around things like Fid handles, walking sticks, ships wheels and rails etc. etc.  At least the exercise here had a function (stopping the pen from rolling) as well as being an interesting pattern.

However, it does once again highlight the fact that the term knot has been so bastardised by people who enjoy tying ornamental wrappings that this little binding is automatically thought of as a knot instead of a wrap or perhaps most correctly an ornamental cylindrical weave.

Derek

DerekSmith

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Re: 9/11 knot
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2010, 01:47:07 PM »
Following lightly Lasse and Carols challenge - take a loop of cord and fold a constrictor onto it.

Take a bight of the loop and pas sit into the nip of the constrictor - tighten the constrictor until it capsizes into the Myrtle, trapping the bight eye as a small loop.

Pass one of the remaining loops through this eye - you now have a secure double loop where the knot will not move and loop cord will not translate through from one side to the other.

NB.  I have found that learning to 'fold' the constrictor 'on the thumb' is a useful skill for a gardener and numerous other knotting tasks.

Derek

KnotMe

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Derek, let's talk about knots
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2010, 04:06:36 AM »
However, it does once again highlight the fact that the term knot has been so bastardised by people who enjoy tying ornamental...
The word "knot" is fairly basic to human existence.  Starting early, perhaps even before spoken language, so it is thoroughly integrated into all aspects of the human condition and forms the basis for many topics and is further highly symbolic.  Speaking as someone who has Internet search results for the word "knot" delivered to her email daily (in a variety of languages), people use the word "knot" a lot.  And only rarely are they talking about something involving cord.  Usually are talking about marriage, then they might be talking about sports teams with the same score, after that thye might be talking about wood or maybe business mergers.  Then they might be talking about climbing, fishing, cordage and such.  After that they might be talking about wind speed, muscles, blows to the head, snarls of traffic, mathematics, endangered birds, tough problems in general, or fashion.  Also, there are a variety of places, animals and vessels with the word "knot" in the name.

So, you see, those bastardizing ornamental weavers really are a fairly benign minority of the uncounted ignorant savages who are trying to contaminate the meaning of the word "knot" that you so vigorously defend.

Hmm, that was worded a bit strongly.  Some might call that inflammatory phrasing or trolling.  Maybe I should think about how to say what I mean politely before I post...

Maybe what I really meant to say was "Derek, dude!  You're getting on my nerves (and I think I'm not the only one), so cut it out!  Love, Carol."  8)
« Last Edit: December 16, 2010, 04:25:02 AM by KnotMe »

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Derek, let's talk about knots
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2010, 07:06:35 AM »
Speaking as someone who has Internet search results for the word "knot" delivered to her email daily (in a variety of languages), people use the word "knot" a lot.  And only rarely are they talking about something involving cord.

"In a variety of languages" :  does this mean "noeude", "knotten", et cetera?
Is marriage or vessel speed or that migrating bird something denoted by
the foreign cordage equivalents?  (interesting, that, if so)?

The plight of red knots vis-a-vis commercial exploitation of the
ancient horseshoe crab along the Delaware comes home in knotting
to me by way of the fishermen & conch pots (usually rigged with
3-leg bridles of overhand knots & hog rings ... (if I've not Knots
in the Wild'd
  these put that on my to-do list!)).  Indeed, once
when I mentioned my interest of "knots" to one captain his initial
interpretation was re the birds, not the structure!  (He, a conch
fisher, who favor horseshoe-crab meat for bait.)


 :)

Lasse_C

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Re: 9/11 knot
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2010, 10:09:58 AM »
Actually, if I remember correctly, the word "knot" as the unit for vessel speed does come from knots in cordage!
A wood plate of given dimensions was placed in the end of a cord that had knots at certain intervals. The piece of wood was dropped in the water after which the number of knots pulled out during a specified time was counted. This gave the speed which, naturally, was given in "knots".

In fact, I think even the word religion derives from the Latin "ligare", which means to tie a knot, tie together.

The idea of knots is one of the most fundamental human concepts...

Lasse C


« Last Edit: December 17, 2010, 10:10:30 AM by Lasse_C »