Author Topic: Zeppelin, a rule of thumb  (Read 8172 times)

[Inkanyezi] gone

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Zeppelin, a rule of thumb
« on: November 26, 2010, 03:13:17 PM »
I posted in Roo's thread of the Zeppelin loop my way of tying it in hand, and I think it may merit its own thread, as a "rule of thumb" way of tying.

The problem I see in the 69/bq method is that it is a tad difficult to do in hand; mostly one needs a fairly firm grip on things, which is helped if one can hold it firmly in the hand.

So this is the way I do it now:
  • I grab the first rope with my left hand, its end hanging.
  • I throw a turn behind its standing part, and I hold it, with my thumb along the standing part. (image 1)
  • Then I reeve the end through the turn, around my thumb. (image 2)
  • The other rope's end is then rove along the thumb from above, and the thumb shifts grip into the loop. (image 3)
  • The end of the second rope is taken over its standing part, and is rove through the turn in opposite direction along the thumb. (image 4)

The method suits both the bend and the loop.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2010, 04:26:33 PM by Inkanyezi »
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Dan_Lehman

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Re: Zeppelin, a rule of thumb
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2010, 04:00:47 PM »
Inkanyezi, I like the thinking here, but find the method still somewhat
more awkward than it could be, I think.

How about this variation on your theme :

form the initial loop in the left-hand-held side as you do
(or whatever similar motion achieves this result --which is
the "b" of the "b/q" orientation);

but then bring the opposite end into the mixture by
bringing it across over the top of one's fingers, putting
it in proper "q" position;

continue manipulating this 2nd end, going back around
over itself to be brought out parallel to one's fingers now
within the loops of the ends;

and finish with the first end's tucking out opposite.

"X"ising and other variations desired by the tyer can be
implemented as desired with the final tuck and then dressing.

--dl*
====

[Inkanyezi] gone

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Re: Zeppelin, a rule of thumb
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2010, 04:29:04 PM »
Tucking the first end last is fair enough for the bend, but not suitable for the loop. I first made this with the loop, and that's why it got a bit more complex, but an advantage might be that the loop is made in exactly the same way. If both knots are frequently used, both manners may be learned, but I seldom use a bend. It might be more interesting for climbers, who need rock secure loops that can be loaded in any awkward way, as well as amply secure bends.

i think it may be advantageous to learn this way of tying, in order to tie the loop consistently without too much thinking. when you get the movements into your body instead of as a visual clue, it is easier to do when you cannot see what you are doing, and you also run less risk of making mistakes if you train the movements thoroughly. I think of it as a safety aspect; to get a consistent way of making the knot.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2010, 04:38:10 PM by Inkanyezi »
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knot4u

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Re: Zeppelin, a rule of thumb
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2010, 05:47:43 PM »
That's nice work, thanks.  I appreciate your work with the Carrick Bend.  Because of you, I now have the Carrick Bend on my short list.  I will be practicing this method to see how it works for me.  You should put your website in your signature line.

Based on what I have read above, you never outright claim this is a one-handed tying method.  That's good because I think another hand may be needed to get that second rope into the knot.  Is that right?  If so, my question is why not involve both hands in the entire process from the beginning?  Recall that you involved both hands in your Carrick Bend tying method.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2010, 05:51:58 PM by knot4u »

[Inkanyezi] gone

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Re: Zeppelin, a rule of thumb
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2010, 06:30:41 PM »
my question is why not involve both hands in the entire process from the beginning? 

Oh, it is a Q&D photo job, I held the camera in my right hand when I took them and just show the position of the left hand with the rope. The right hand is involved.

But I thought it good to include the hand in the tying pattern, because I use the hand as a guide and to hold things in place. I have been working on it a few times now, and I can now tie the knot blindfolded and with gloves on. Rehearsing the method instead of trying to remember a pattern works better for me; in this way I have also got a kind of choreography for tying the Zeppelin. I try to get my knot tying into a set of movements with the hands rather than memorising patterns; then it is like when you learn to ride a bicycle, once you get the hang of it, you will never forget.

It was my frustration when trying to remember the pattern for the Zeppelin when making the loop knot that made me chop it into pieces, so that it can be followed 1-2-3-4.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2010, 06:52:31 PM by Inkanyezi »
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knot4u

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Re: Zeppelin, a rule of thumb
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2010, 09:07:05 PM »
OK, I use Roo's Alternative Method for both the loop and the bend.  It's basically the same thing you're doing.  You just found it in your own way, and that's fine.

http://notableknotindex.webs.com/zeppelinloop.html
« Last Edit: November 27, 2010, 09:12:27 PM by knot4u »