Author Topic: Fixed loop, around an object (e.g. ring), middle of the rope. Which knot?  (Read 20101 times)

B.M.

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Re: Fixed loop, around an object (e.g. ring), middle of the rope. Which knot?
« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2010, 05:42:13 PM »

Would the mooring hitch and/or tumble hitch do the trick?

One should ask why you would think of those?

At least in the case of the tumble hitch, you don't need access to the ends of the line to tie it, which is exactly the problem the OP is asking about.  And the mooring hitch, would need the end to pass around his endless loop to which he's tying off (the grab handle on the rear of the atv, I'd imagine) only once, and the end is not needed to be fed through the knot to tie it.  Feeding 20' or so of excess rope back and forth is what we are trying to avoid here.

I have been thinking about this problem a bit here and there, and I wonder, can you tie the round turn and two half hitches on a bight in this situation?  I've only done that w/ para-cord in a non-critical situation, so I don't know how well that will translate to a larger diameter rope wrapped around a relatively small diameter bar...

Also, this comes to mind- you could first tie a fixed loop in the middle of the line (Alpine Butterfly, for example) and then if you have a wrench, some kind of rod, or a sturdy branch you could do this kind of cow hitch variation- http://www.layhands.com/Knots/LarksHeadToggle.jpg

BM

knot4u

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Re: Fixed loop, around an object (e.g. ring), middle of the rope. Which knot?
« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2010, 06:22:36 PM »
BM, please describe your entire system from start to finish.  I don't follow you.  I don't see how your new ideas are much different than what has already been offered in the thread.  Did you read the entire thread?

I find DerekSmith's solution (or a variation thereof) to be easily the best offered here.  It is so simple that it makes me wonder why nobody mentioned it sooner.
http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=2031.msg14435#msg14435
Note that variations of that solution have been discussed above.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2010, 06:29:40 PM by knot4u »

roo

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Re: Fixed loop, around an object (e.g. ring), middle of the rope. Which knot?
« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2010, 06:51:32 PM »

I find DerekSmith's solution (or a variation thereof) to be easily the best offered here.  It is so simple that it makes me wonder why nobody mentioned it sooner.

It was not mentioned sooner because it directly violates the original terms of the problem (approx. middle of rope, no convenient end-access).
« Last Edit: November 15, 2010, 06:52:46 PM by roo »
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knot4u

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Re: Fixed loop, around an object (e.g. ring), middle of the rope. Which knot?
« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2010, 07:26:19 PM »

I find DerekSmith's solution (or a variation thereof) to be easily the best offered here.  It is so simple that it makes me wonder why nobody mentioned it sooner.

It was not mentioned sooner because it directly violates the original terms of the problem (approx. middle of rope, no convenient end-access).

Well, sometimes we have to provide some thinking for the original poster.  ;)  Note that in the original post he starts off with having access to the ends, and then he later says he doesn't have access.  So, basically, there was somehow no end access because of how the original poster was managing the rope.  The original poster conceded that a variation of DerekSmith's solution is viable.
http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=2031.msg14446#msg14446
« Last Edit: November 15, 2010, 07:32:39 PM by knot4u »

B.M.

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Re: Fixed loop, around an object (e.g. ring), middle of the rope. Which knot?
« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2010, 08:33:27 PM »
BM, please describe your entire system from start to finish.  I don't follow you.  I don't see how your new ideas are much different than what has already been offered in the thread.  Did you read the entire thread?

I find DerekSmith's solution (or a variation thereof) to be easily the best offered here.  It is so simple that it makes me wonder why nobody mentioned it sooner.
http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=2031.msg14435#msg14435
Note that variations of that solution have been discussed above.

And his solution requires that your rope be just a bit longer than 2x the distance between the atvs.  What if your atvs are 25' apart, and you have 49' or rope, or 200', you find yourself back in the same situation.  How to tie a knot in the middle of a line w/o threading the ending of the line back and forth over and over again...

As far as the round turn w/ two half hitches on a bight- here's some crappy cell phone photos (sorry, I only have a crappy old dumb-phone camera on hand right now)-
And like I said, I only have paracord on hand, and an office door handle.  I don't know how of if it would work w/ larger line around a small-ish diameter bar.

BM

knot4u

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Re: Fixed loop, around an object (e.g. ring), middle of the rope. Which knot?
« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2010, 12:44:11 AM »
BM, please describe your entire system from start to finish.  I don't follow you.  I don't see how your new ideas are much different than what has already been offered in the thread.  Did you read the entire thread?

I find DerekSmith's solution (or a variation thereof) to be easily the best offered here.  It is so simple that it makes me wonder why nobody mentioned it sooner.
http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=2031.msg14435#msg14435
Note that variations of that solution have been discussed above.

And his solution requires that your rope be just a bit longer than 2x the distance between the atvs.  What if your atvs are 25' apart, and you have 49' or rope, or 200', you find yourself back in the same situation.  How to tie a knot in the middle of a line w/o threading the ending of the line back and forth over and over again...

If the line is over 2x the distance, then I'd use a variation of DerrickSmith's solution.  The original poster has acknowledged that DerrickSmith's solution is acceptable.  I'd coil the extra rope and attach it to the rope that's there.  There would not need to be multiple passes across the rails.  Extra rope is a common problem.  I don't think there's a need to modify the desired knots just because there's extra rope.

If the rope is less than 2x the distance, then your pics are a possible solution if you somehow have NO access to the ends.  However, having no access to the ends is more of an academic exercise because the original poster acknowledged that DerrickSmith's solution (which requires end access) would work.  Note also that the original poster has access to the ends to start, and then somewhere along the way he doesn't have access (so he says).  I see this problem as more of a rope management issue, and access to the ends is available if the solution calls for it.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 07:44:42 AM by knot4u »