Author Topic: Irish hitch (new knot)  (Read 6213 times)

Sweeney

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Re: Irish hitch (new knot)
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2010, 10:03:39 AM »
Joe

Has your patent been granted? If not what is the status of your application? I ask because where knots are concerned it is unusual to say the least for a patent to be granted not least because it is usually impossible to prove that the knot is original. It regularly happens that a "new" knot turns out to have been discovered some time ago (perhaps the most famous being Hunter's Bend - Dr Hunter did devise a method of tying but the knot itself was not original). The difficulty is that often someone devises a knot, uses it and perhaps it becomes widely used but never published in a book.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2010, 10:25:28 AM by Sweeney »

Rrok007

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Re: Irish hitch (new knot)
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2010, 06:28:30 PM »
I spent ?200 american dollars.  
You have my permission to use this hitch
Thank you!
The webbing can be attached to an eye then bolted to the sec ond object.

Okay, I am not unwilling to admit when I am short-sighted. While I'm sure there are better methods, I could easily see this as useful somehow to climbers.

To me, I think, the best use of this knot would not be with a closed loop, but rather an open one. Doing so, the ends run through the cow hitch, wrap around to the back, and then fed through a slide/slidelock mechanism. In such a tie, it makes an easy to learn cincher like how the truckers hitch is used.

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Irish hitch (new knot)
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2010, 07:00:26 AM »
The NKCAC was formed in order to focus the attention of dedicated
and interested expertise on submittals of "new knots" --be they claims
by a supposed "inventer" or queries from the merely curious.  Part of
the hope was to be a filter on Knotting Matters to spare it consuming
pages for what could be more efficiently & effectively dealt with directly.

Given the capabilities of the Net, this forum provides even better access
to information, though I might still receive some hard mail from time to
time (10/15, in fact -- a (re-)invented traced Strangle bend, aka "Surgeon's
Knot"
by anglers.  Something like that is better not a KM article!

In the present case, the IGKT had some experience ca. 2003 with Mr.
McNicholas : his "Irish Bowline" presentation was forwarded to me by
Brion Toss, and the "Fig.8 Bowline" (since, finding Italian heritage)
via IGKT offices.  But queries --hard- & e-mail-- in response to these
items were not answered, and w/o a missing-persons  search or something,
there was little more to do.

Re the OP, it is something to be proud of to have discovered a clever
securing of a sling such as this.  However, it is a pride that others might
share, and --as Barry/Sweeney points out-- I'm sure that Harry Asher was
tickled (as was his wont) with his "Equalizer" discovery --i.e., THIS same
bight-locking structure.  One can find "Asher's Equalizer" published in
Knotting Matters, A Fresh Approach to Knotting, and at least a couple
Budworth books --viz., The Complete Book of Knots (of course, it's
"complete"!) & The Ultimate Encyclopedia of Knots & Ropework--;
their respective copyrights are ca.1985, 1992, 1997, & 1999.

The question above about What did Budworth say? is a good one to ask,
for one can find in his own books Asher's Equalizer --published before Joe
discovered it, even, let alone presented it to him (or patented it!).  And no
doubt Geoffrey learned of Asher's discovery fairly quickly from Harry, as they
shared correspondence, and I think that GB was editing KM at the time when
HA's article on it appeared --circa 1985.  (So, this shows some of the weakness
of the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office.)

As for the strength claims --"200%" / "strongest knot"-- , these are prima facie
false, and seem to be based on a simplistic comparison of this doubling of
sling material on a span which could be done for other knots (such as Cow
or Girth hitches).  The knot part of this structure is akin to the not-so-strong
Reef / Square knot, though it is likely better for having all ends loaded.
But this attachment in nylon & Dyneema (rockclimbing) slings has been
tested and the strength was nowhere near 100% of sling strength --one
is urged to connect slings with carabiners, thus.  (I think that there might
be better knotted ways.)  (And, so, Rrok007, I cannot see this structure's
use for climbers : what do you conceive that they might do with it?)

--dl*
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Joe McNicholas

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Re: Irish hitch (new knot)
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2010, 10:40:55 AM »
Irish hitch - primarius vacuus knot (first rate free) knot.
Hooking a carabiner to connect will decrease the knot by 90%.
When tied in webbing the weak links are the rings. 
hook directly to the load thru bolts is the best way.
The webbing can hold 2000 Lbs.
The rings can only hold 200 Lbs.

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Irish hitch (new knot)
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2010, 05:29:35 AM »
Hooking a carabiner to connect will decrease the knot by 90%.

 ???
Connecting tape slings with a 'biner is the recommended method,
and retains most of their strength.

--dl*
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Sweeney

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Re: Irish hitch (new knot)
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2010, 08:32:16 AM »
The webbing can hold 2000 Lbs.
The rings can only hold 200 Lbs.

This may be but a carabiner will hold around 24 Kn (well over 2000 lbs force) hence Dan's comment.

Barry

Joe McNicholas

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Re: Irish hitch (new knot)
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2010, 02:44:28 PM »
The reference to rings is about the name changing to ring hitch doubled.  The knot doubles the material the knot only sees half the load. The other half goes through the knot. 2X the strength the carabiner 1X.  The Ashley equalizer should not be used for climbing.w  Joe

Bob Thrun

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Re: Irish hitch (new knot)
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2010, 01:12:54 AM »
When tied in webbing the weak links are the rings. 
hook directly to the load thru bolts is the best way.
The webbing can hold 2000 Lbs.
The rings can only hold 200 Lbs.
Both webbing and rings come in a great variety of
sizes and strengths.

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Irish hitch (new knot)
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2010, 08:54:59 PM »
In researching a recent New-Knot Claim (being the fictitious chair of
the fictitious NKC Assessment Committee sometimes garners some
bona fide new-knot claims!), I discovered that Ashley has largely
anticipated Asher's (nb : different names, different people) merging
of bight-ends for the Asher's Equalizer : #446 shows something
similar, though distinct.  Btw, Ashley's center image for this entry
is wrong (in being impossible, for one) ; the left images shows
the start that can result in the structure shown in the right one.

Prior to the manipulations that achieve the right-hand structure,
a structure similar to Asher's Equalizer momentarily obtains,
en passant, so to speak.  With just some rotation of the doubled
bights, one gets the OP's presented structure, aka Asher's Equalizer.
Now, is there an older new-knot claim to invalidate or qualify as derivative?
And should we try to keep making claims, or putting stakes on them?

--dl*
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Rrok007

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Re: Irish hitch (new knot)
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2010, 11:16:04 PM »
Oooooo.... Steak... that sounds good.