Author Topic: Two Double Zeppelin bends as fishing knots  (Read 13224 times)

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Two Double Zeppelin bends as fishing knots
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2010, 03:20:16 PM »
Consider this though: The Palomar is perhaps the strongest knot one can use to attach a line to a hook.  Meanwhile, the Palomar's structure is based on a simple overhand and is unlike other angling knots that have multiple turns around the standing end.

We should look more closely than this.  The Palomar is presented
in three orientations:  with the bight-end left around the shank of
the hook; with it moved out to surround the knot (Half-hitch);
and with it brought fully up around the SPart & tail ("tag end"),
which makes it a Pile-hitch noose hitch.  (Both Sosin & Kreh
and Wilson say "make sure the loop [bight-end] rides up over
the hook eye and doesn't bind around the shank".)
Are these three knots equally strong?

In HMPE ("gel-spun") lines, apparently, the Palomar and
with 2 extra wraps around the eye the Triple Palomar
are not, according to Geoff Wilson's testing (e.g., 75% for
the stronger, "Triple", where line is breaking at 130% of
its rating).  (The Uni, given a triple-turn guard, too, is a
bit stronger; Wilson shows it deliberately tied in the Strangle
orientation (using an aid to pass the end up through wraps).
(Well, hmmm, I see that Wilson too is coy about equating
the knots -- the Uni still left much to the imagination
and vagaries of setting, alas.))

In fact, with the bight-end brought back past the hook's
eye --either around the knot or father-- , one DOES have
some bit of wrapping, though hardly the extent in e.g.
a clinch knot.  Consider what is more important:  that
the knot is tightened to a great extent by pulling on both
ends --SPart & tail-- , which makes the bight-end wrap & bind
more surely than would the knot if tied in rope and left
to load-tightening.

The Overhand is turned into a Half-hitch, with I think
less pressure of a choker sort around the SPart than
is the case for Rosendahl's bend.

--dl*
====

xarax

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Re: Two Double Zeppelin bends as fishing knots
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2014, 05:04:55 PM »
  Starting from the common, single Zeppelin bend, if we duplicate the collars, we get the "A" variations. If we duplicate the nipping loops, we get the "B" variations. So, we can imagine "AB" variations, where everything is duplicated - the material and the time required to tie and untie the bend included, unfortunately (*). Another way to describe the B variations, is this : Starting from the common, single Zeppelin loop, where the Standing Parts make 180 degrees U-turns around the pair of the Tail Ends, if we retuck the Standing Ends through the opposite collars once, we get the 360 degrees variation ( the B2 ). If we retuck them once more ( = twice ), we get the 540 degrees variation ( the B1).
   See also : http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4777.msg31022#msg31022

(*) Each one of the two collars can encircle the Standing End of the one or of the other link - the situation is similar with the double-collar Hunter s bends, shown at :   
http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1919.msg16661#msg16661
http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1919.msg16662#msg16662
This is not a knot.

TMCD

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Re: Two Double Zeppelin bends as fishing knots
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2014, 12:08:32 AM »
As a true blue fisherman that has tested many of these leader knots and terminal knots, Iet me suggest several that are my favorites.

As for a terminal knot, line to hook for example, the Snell Knot is awesome. It's not only super strong but it gives you an in plane pull when setting the hook because of it's relationship being tied not to the eye of the hook but to the hook's shank.

For leader knots, I like the Bristol Knot and the Yucatan Knot. You must tie either a triple over hand surgeons loop, perfection loop, bimini twist or my favorite, the Spider hitch in the main line and then join your leader to your chosen loop.

I can attest to how addictive tying fishing knots really is because I've been tying and testing for 18 months now.

xarax

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Re: Two Double Zeppelin bends as fishing knots
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2014, 02:46:17 PM »
Iet me suggest several that are my favorites.

  Thank you. We would be grateful if you could examine which of those fishing knots could possibly be "simplified" ( that is, tied with fewer wraps ), and serve as bends, loops or hitches that can be tied on "ordinary" rope ( so, not only on fishing line ). Just tie the fishing knots you know on a chord or rope, with the minimum number of turns they can be tied, and see if they retain their knotting properties, and can serve as ordinary knots.

This is not a knot.