Author Topic: Best Gripping Hitch for Vertical Pole  (Read 39750 times)

knot4u

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Best Gripping Hitch for Vertical Pole
« on: June 29, 2010, 03:14:57 AM »
The application is a slick vertical pole.  What's the best hitch?

I tested the good old Klemheist option on a vertical pole.  It performs quite well, and possibly the best of all knots I've tested so far.  However, as far as I know, there is no practical way to tie this option if there is a load already on the standing end.  The standing end must be passed through the end loop once you wrap the loop around the pole.

EDIT: After testing many hitches, the hitches below are some of my favorites.

Well Pipe (ABOK #504)

http://www.oktroop17.org/knots/Pipe_Hitch.html


Klemheist (ABOK #1762)
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 05:47:58 AM by knot4u »

jcsampson

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Re: Best Gripping Hitch for Vertical Pole
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2010, 03:34:19 AM »
Why, the "Four-Coil-Ring Fixed-Gripper Coil Hitch," of course!

- http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1839.msg12495#msg12495

If it doesn't knock your socks off, then you didn't make it right.

JCS

dmacdd

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Re: Best Gripping Hitch for Vertical Pole
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2010, 01:20:22 PM »
The application is a slick vertical pole.  What's the best hitch?


Absent other requirements, and assuming the load is parallel to the pole, why would the simplest not be the best? I offer a coil wound tightly around the pole away from the load, finished with two half hitches around the SP, snugged up against the coil.  I forget the ABOK number for this, but do remember that Ashley calls it the well pipe hitch.

Alternatively, http://davidmdelaney.com/icicle-hitch/icicle-hitch.html

roo

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Re: Best Gripping Hitch for Vertical Pole
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2010, 02:50:51 PM »
The application is a slick vertical pole.  What's the best hitch?
The number of tests required with different materials, conditions (wet?), pole diameters, rope diameters, loading profiles, taper shape, mood of the tester, etc., makes this a nebulous and hard to address question.  My experience is that that difference in most of these dime-a-dozen hitches is not all that great, especially if you throw enough rope at the problem.  Just pick one that doesn't unwind on you and is easy for you to execute.

By the way, it's "Gripping Sailor's Hitch", not "Sailor's Gripping Hitch".   It's a gripping version of the Sailor's Hitch, not a Sailor's version of a non-existent Gripping Hitch.

« Last Edit: June 29, 2010, 03:16:11 PM by roo »
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roo

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Re: Best Gripping Hitch for Vertical Pole
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2010, 04:43:18 PM »
By the way, it's "Gripping Sailor's Hitch", not "Sailor's Gripping Hitch".   It's a gripping version of the Sailor's Hitch, not a Sailor's version of a non-existent Gripping Hitch.

OK, but many folks on the Internet refer to the knot as the Sailor's Gripping Hitch, for example:

http://www.layhands.com/Knots/Knots_Hitches.htm
http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1158.0
http://www.skytopia.com/project/articles/knot/knots.html
http://www.survivalworld.com/knots/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gripping_sailor%27s_hitch (The Title)

For identification purposes to those references, I'll refer to the knot as the Sailor's Gripping Hitch.
Yes, and they're all wrong.  I should know;  the name originated on the Notable Knot Index.

The only question is who first mis-typed the name. :D
« Last Edit: June 29, 2010, 04:53:19 PM by roo »
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roo

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Re: Best Gripping Hitch for Vertical Pole
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2010, 05:05:59 PM »
So, you invented/formalized the knot? 
The particular Gripping Sailor's Hitch?  Yes. 
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DaveRoot

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Re: Best Gripping Hitch for Vertical Pole
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2010, 06:21:13 PM »
A few years ago I was asked to add the "Sailor's Gripping Hitch" to my Hitches page at http://www.layhands.com/Knots/Knots_Hitches.htm, based on another website which referred to it as the "Sailor's Gripping Hitch."

But if "Gripping Sailor's Hitch" is the original name then I'll be happy to change my website to make it more accurate.

Dave


jcsampson

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Re: Best Gripping Hitch for Vertical Pole
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2010, 10:23:43 PM »
Quote from: dmacdd
"I . . . remember that Ashley calls it the well pipe hitch."

The "Well-Pipe Hitch" is ABOK #504. You'll find that having more than four coil rings is unnecessary and can sometimes be problematic. Two Half Hitches will get the job done, but it is amazing how a Fixed-Gripper Knot instead of Two Half Hitches (or the Buntline Hitch knot) can noticeably improve the performance of the construct. A Fixed-Gripper Knot can be made tight, be pushed flush into the coil, stay put, actually aid the grip itself, and do the job noticeably better than either Two Half Hitches or (the component knot of) the Buntline Hitch.

ABOK #505 looks like a great construct, too. Of course, the main problem is that it will likely drop as soon as the connection to it (e.g., the hook) stops pulling, but whether this matters depends upon the application. Its quickness in making and removing could be the very thing needed for an application, so ABOK #505 gets my vote as another satisfying option. ABOK #505 reminds me of the Klemheist, but the Klemheist will sometimes (depending upon the position of the standing part) fail to have an adequate pull on both sides of the coil, which I feel is the main reason why many hitches grip poorly, whether temporarily.

JCS

jcsampson

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Re: Best Gripping Hitch for Vertical Pole
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2010, 10:30:59 PM »
If the gripping performance, on a vertical pole, of the "Four-Coil-Ring Fixed-Gripper Coil Hitch," which I mentioned earlier in this thread, virtually knocked your socks off, then what I am about to mention may downright knock you off your feet:

Try making another Four-Coil-Ring Fixed-Gripper Coil Hitch on a vertical pole, but instead of using the component knot of the Fixed-Gripper Hitch (namely, the Fixed-Gripper Knot) to make your coil hitch, use the slide-and-grip structure of the Fixed-Gripper Slide-and-Grip Hitch. Take your time, dress it well, and push it well into the four-coil-ring coil a number of times, until all of the play has been completely worked out of the structure and it is as flush as possible to the coil on the pole.

Finally, try the slide-and-grip structure of the Fixed-Gripper Slide-and-Grip Hitch Variation to make your Four-Coil-Ring Coil Hitch.

- http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1839.msg12539#msg12539

Disclaimer: I am not responsible if you hit your head when the gripping performance of this structure knocks you off your feet.

JCS

Erickson

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Re: Best Gripping Hitch for Vertical Pole
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2010, 07:46:06 AM »
Well obviously the "Best" hitch is the McLoughlin Hitch  ;D http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1764.0

But really, I'd go with an icicle hitch. I've been playing with the Mason Hitch just now and I like the finish on it, one thing I don't like about the Gripping Sailor's Hitch. Actually I think Roo's right,
Quote
My experience is that that difference in most of these dime-a-dozen hitches is not all that great, especially if you throw enough rope at the problem.
Which the Four-Coil-Ring Coil Hitch manages nicely, grippy though it may be.

K-

dmacdd

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Re: Best Gripping Hitch for Vertical Pole
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2010, 01:48:32 AM »
I'm liking the following:

Mason Hitch (my favorite)
http://plotus.dreamhosters.com/MasonHitch.jpg

I tied the Mason Hitch and finished it off tight with a slipped half hitch.  It works quite well, and this knot combination is now on my favorites list.

Hmm.. The Mason hitch as drawn above seems to me to be likely to be less secure than the unnamed hitch at http://davidmdelaney.com/icicle-hitch/icicle-hitch.html, because of the apparently superior way that, in the latter, the SP nips the WE against itself and the pole. It seems to me that the Mason hitch could have the same property simply by insuring (drawing) the WE closer to the pole than the SP in the loop that nips the SP and the WE, contrary to the way the cited drawing shows it.

Bob Thrun

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Re: Best Gripping Hitch for Vertical Pole
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2010, 10:36:37 PM »
The application is a slick vertical pole.  What's the best hitch?

I'm liking the following:

Mason Hitch (my favorite)
http://plotus.dreamhosters.com/MasonHitch.jpg
That would be called a Distel Hitch by arborists.

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Best Gripping Hitch for Vertical Pole
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2010, 11:32:03 PM »
Mason Hitch (my favorite)
http://plotus.dreamhosters.com/MasonHitch.jpg
That would be called a Distel Hitch by arborists.

???  By which arborists?  -- not Mahk Adams, nor do any of the readily
accessible images match this.  As put verbally, the Distel "is like a 3:1
Clove -- AND both ends are loaded.  In this "Mason", it is not a Clove,
and only one end is loaded, with an interesting nip of the end
-- like a Reversed Ossel Hitch.

 :)

DerekSmith

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Re: Best Gripping Hitch for Vertical Pole
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2010, 01:46:39 PM »
The application is a slick vertical pole.  What's the best hitch?
...snip

'best' has numerous aspects, but for ease of tying and excellence of grip I would use the KC hitch http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=542.0



or the Beefed up KC Hitch http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=551.0




Remember though, that all these hitches only work well when the cord diameter is significantly smaller than the pole.

Derek

knot4u

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Re: Best Gripping Hitch for Vertical Pole
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2010, 01:40:28 AM »
Remember though, that all these hitches only work well when the cord diameter is significantly smaller than the pole.
Derek

Those hitches in your pics have overlapping loops on the main grip around the pole.  For vertical pole applications, I have found overlapping loops to reduce the grip to the pole in the vertical direction (aka, lengthwise direction).  I suspect that's why most established hitches for lengthwise pull do not have overlapping loops at the main grip around the pole.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2010, 02:16:58 AM by knot4u »