Author Topic: Favorite Way to Tie Trucker's Hitch  (Read 171079 times)

Keystoner

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Re: On second thought...
« Reply #150 on: January 22, 2013, 01:52:25 AM »
Then, you need to keep looking because the knot in my video is not quite the same as Lee's.

Agreed.  Your nip (in the video) is in the same direction as Lee.  Your bight is in the opposite direction as Lee.

Quote
My method of tie is like the video you posted of the guy in the snow

Let's give that a well deserved name, shall we: "Perry's Trucker's Hitch."  If we could just get Perry to show Lee how to form the nip and Lee to show Perry the securing bight, perhaps we could solve world peace!

Andy

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Re: Trucker Hitch: Favorite Way to Tie
« Reply #151 on: January 22, 2013, 04:03:19 AM »
Hi guys,

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Lee takes the standing part with his right hand and twists 180 degrees away from himself (clockwise as one would observe from the right). 

Yes, that's what I do too (and I have been saying clockwise repeatedly, and I think the picture I posted at this stage of the discussion also show that).
I see that the pictures on my site (which I did not reference in this twisting convo) twist in the opposite direction, and I think I know what happened here. It's pretty hard to take pictures of knots while tying them and keeping them in place, and I must have made the twist with my left hand for the pictures on the website, instead of the right hand that I always use.

Like Knot4U I object to arbitrarily naming that double twist configuration after some random guy on YouTube, this was shown to me ages ago in Australia as the standard way of tying truckies and I don't see how the name would go to some random guy among the thousands who use it.
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Andy

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Re: Trucker Hitch: Favorite Way to Tie
« Reply #152 on: January 22, 2013, 05:05:54 AM »
Quote
The reason I call it "twist once" is because as shown in Andy's "Quickie Truckie", that's the least amount of twisting you could do to get the Trucker to work.

Here are the pictures promised earlier.
The first one is what I call "single twist", which is what I've been assuming you do, and what this discussion has convinced me to experiment with over the past month.
The second is what I call "double twist", and what I have done in the past, and originally written to ask about. Also what I see Lee doing in the video.

Both the single and double allow the truckie to work, even without securing the ear with a half-hitch (as I nearly always do, and you guys seem to as well). My question since the beginning has been: which is preferable, single or double?

These pictures are for clarification only. I don't know how the holding of the single and double twists relate to the picture on my website you recently referred to---that is irrelevant, because as I mentioned before I always twist clockwise, except, it seems, for that website photo, when my right hand must have been holding a camera or something else while I was twisting in the "wrong direction" with the left. (I gave the single counter-clockwise a quick try and it did hold, but every rope is different.)

EDIT: Oh, and sorry about the disgustingly beautiful weather, it's Summer here in the southern hemisphere.  8)
« Last Edit: January 22, 2013, 05:07:19 AM by Andy »
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Keystoner

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Oh all right...
« Reply #153 on: January 22, 2013, 05:07:45 AM »
Like Knot4U I object to arbitrarily naming that double twist configuration after some random guy on YouTube, this was shown to me ages ago in Australia as the standard way of tying truckies and I don't see how the name would go to some random guy among the thousands who use it.

~Sigh~ If it were for someone else, I wouldn't hesitate to buy ABOK.  I just can't get myself to spend that kind of money on myself.  It's been a while since I've paged though it in a book store.  It seemed good as an encyclopedia.  From what I remember, the illustrations were a bit dated compared to knot books of today.

Yes, that's what I do too (and I have been saying clockwise repeatedly, and I think the picture I posted at this stage of the discussion also show that).

Andy, with reference to the three very clear pictures of ABOK #173 that you referenced above which you note "have nothing to do with the double twist," I fully agree with you that Lee does NOT tie ABOK #173.  Nevertheless, do you now agree that Lee doesn't do a double twist either?  Since I don't own ABOK, given Knot4u's definition of ABOK #172 being a single nip, Lee ties ABOK #172 + the securing half hitch with the bight.  Lee's video is a perfect example of what you have on your website for a "Truckie Hitch" except that your pictures have the left hand turn.  That one picture is very deceiving because it certainly looks like a corkscrew turn was performed.

My method of tie is much faster, but it doesn't show up well on video.  My method of tie is like the video you posted of the guy in the snow, but imagine making another nip in the same manner he makes the first nip.  What you end up with is ABOK #173.

I understand "ABOK #173" now.  The Asian fellow and the Australian fellow on the porch tie it, but they don't cinch the two nips together to resemble a Clove Hitch.  With two nips, do you find it necessary to additionally tie the securing half hitched bight?  I see the extra security with that but I've found that Lee's combo is sufficient.

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Re: Trucker Hitch: Favorite Way to Tie
« Reply #154 on: January 22, 2013, 05:12:45 AM »
Hi Keystoner,

Quote
Lee's video is a perfect example of what you have on your website for a "Truckie Hitch" except that your pictures have the left hand turn

Yes, I have always said that I tie exactly the same truckie as the guy does no that video...
...and that he does a double twist, as defined by the pictures I posted a split-second before your last post.
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Keystoner

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Re: Trucker Hitch: Favorite Way to Tie
« Reply #155 on: January 22, 2013, 05:13:33 AM »
Here are the pictures promised earlier.
The first one is what I call "single twist", which is what I've been assuming you do, and what this discussion has convinced me to experiment with over the past month.
The second is what I call "double twist", and what I have done in the past, and originally written to ask about. Also what I see Lee doing in the video.
EDIT: Oh, and sorry about the disgustingly beautiful weather, it's Summer here in the southern hemisphere.  8)

That first picture is EXACTLY what Lee ties.

I live in Chicago, IL USA.  It's 3 degrees farenheit as I type this.  I hate you.  ;)

Keystoner

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Re: Trucker Hitch: Favorite Way to Tie
« Reply #156 on: January 22, 2013, 05:14:47 AM »
Hi Keystoner,

Quote
Lee's video is a perfect example of what you have on your website for a "Truckie Hitch" except that your pictures have the left hand turn

Yes, I have always said that I tie exactly the same truckie as the guy does no that video...
...and that he does a double twist, as defined by the pictures I posted a split-second before your last post.

~Sigh~

Andy

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Re: Trucker Hitch: Favorite Way to Tie
« Reply #157 on: January 22, 2013, 05:17:27 AM »
Quote
That first picture is EXACTLY what Lee ties.

That first picture is exactly what you (and others) see Lee tying.
The second picture is exactly what I (and others) see Lee tying.

Now after Knot4U's posts from this morning, I'm no longer sure what he sees.

Quote
It's 3 degrees farenheit as I type this.

Sorry. I'll try to send the sun around your way, it might take a couple of months.
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Keystoner

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Re: Trucker Hitch: Favorite Way to Tie
« Reply #158 on: January 22, 2013, 05:19:56 AM »

Quote
That first picture is EXACTLY what Lee ties.

That first picture is exactly what you (and others) see Lee tying.


Would you take just one more look at Lee's video in light of the "geometry" angles description I proposed?

Keystoner

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Australians
« Reply #159 on: January 22, 2013, 06:00:19 AM »
which is what the Australian fellow on the porch ties in his video.

That Australina fellow ties his nips with counterclockwise turns as well.  Andy, are you sure that that just isn't an Australian idiosyncracy, kinda like your toilets going down the wrong way?  :P

Andy

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Re: Trucker Hitch: Favorite Way to Tie
« Reply #160 on: January 22, 2013, 06:38:25 AM »
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Keystoner, there is no need for Andy to take another look.  I already went back-and-forth with him about one hundred times on this issue.  He sees what he sees.

Very true, and also agreeing with you that it does not really matter, the real question being which is preferable (which question you have already given your detailed answer to).
Nevertheless, I have two treats for you guys, which may highlight where we see differently.

First, please look at the three attached pictures, excerpted from the video, with the contrast increased. To see something, you will probably have to click on each picture.
These are three consecutive shots.
==> The first one shows Lee having completed what I call the single twist (same as my picture # 1 from today I believe).
==> The second one shows Lee... starting to twist that first nip again, clockwise, i.e, starting the double twist.
==> On the third picture (blurry, sorry), he has completed the double twist, and is about to push the bight through it.

Second, if you guys have a media player, please take a look at this excerpt from the video, showing exactly where I see the double twist happening.
[Apologies in advance to readers from the future, as I will delete this at some stage for copyright reasons, although I believe such an excerpt constitutes "fair use".]
If your computer doesn't play this file, you can download PotPlayer (fabulous for PC) or VLC (for Mac or PC).

Looking forward to your thoughts about what we're seeing differently here and why. I might yet rally to your camp.

@Keystoner, the most confusing thing about the southern hemisphere is that mirrors invert top and bottom instead of left and right.  ;)

Peace,

Andy
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Andy

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Slow Motion Truckie
« Reply #161 on: January 22, 2013, 07:23:30 AM »
Perhaps even better, my friends: please download this video---the segment where I see the double twist, in slow motion.
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Keystoner

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Re: Trucker Hitch: Favorite Way to Tie
« Reply #162 on: January 22, 2013, 07:23:51 AM »
==> The first one shows Lee having completed what I call the single twist (same as my picture # 1 from today I believe).

Agreed.  Lee has just completed his first 180 degree clockwise twist.  At this point I will define the opening in the nip facing the camera as Side 1 and the opening facing away from the camera as Side 2.  Side 1 is the top facing up and to the left; Side 2 is the bottom facing down and to the right.  Lee is about to twist again.  His right index finger is on top of Side 1; his right thumb is on the bottom of Side 2.

==> The second one shows Lee... starting to twist that first nip again, clockwise, i.e, starting the double twist.

For the sake of agreement, I'll agree to call this the start of a "double twist."  In this picture Side 1 is now facing to the left and Side 2 is facing to the right.

==> On the third picture (blurry, sorry), he has completed the double twist, and is about to push the bight through it.

This picture is horrible, but he has definitely not completed another *180* degree twist.  If you follow the video closely, you will see that Lee pushes the bight through Side 2 and out through Side 1.  His "second" twist was just enough (I said 90 degrees previously) to expose Side 2 to the bight.  He does not twist so far to expose Side 1 again in order for the bight to enter through Side 1. Please try to see this.

Keystoner

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Re: Slow Motion Truckie
« Reply #163 on: January 22, 2013, 07:26:06 AM »
Perhaps even better, my friends: please download this video---the segment where I see the double twist, in slow motion.

It couldn't have been more clear.  What side does Lee insert the bight?  (Hint: Side 2)

Andy

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Re: Trucker Hitch: Favorite Way to Tie
« Reply #164 on: January 22, 2013, 11:46:17 AM »
Hi Keystoner,

Thank you for looking at these pictures and the video in detail.

Yes, I do agree with you that the man pushes the bight in through side 2.

On the slo-mo, I see him as having nearly completed another 180 degree twist (maybe 160), but even if it's just another 130, that's immaterial: if he goes in through side 2, that is the exact same as my picture #2 of earlier today, in other words, what I have been calling a "double twist". Going through side 1 would be a single twist (picture #1). I say this after double checking rope in hand, looking at picture #2 and side 2 on the screen.
Does this make sense to you, or do you think I am missing something?

Anyhow, between your "side 1 / side 2" and my "picture 1 / picture 2",  it seems like we may have found a "language" to understand what each other means---and we might be near a resolution.

Wishing you a beautiful day,

Andy
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